Hinduism allows its scriptures to be questioned.
Buddha encouraged his disciples to question his teachings.
Knowledge grows when it is questioned and discussed. For inconsistencies are then discovered and eliminated.
Why does Scientology prohibit its followers to question and discuss its knowledge?
If Scientology must grow it should allow its theories to be examined, questioned, challenged and discussed by its followers.
The other option would be for Scientology to go the way of the Catholic Church – moving lifelessly only because of past momentum.
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Comments
I all ready know what it works so I don’t have the need to look for what it works and I also know that there is no magic wand in universe to wave over somebodies head and with that erase all the filter and putting that person into that magical moment of NOW.
TIME is a consideration, it has no mass” no energy, therefore it is intangible. Time that consideration do not exist outside of this plant. Entities do not measure.
Time is an aspect of motion, just like space is.
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Motion seems to be an awareness characteristic of the quantum of space-time. Both appear simultaneously for us. It is kind of a squirrel cage without a beginning or ending.
Very well stated!
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Motion is motion.. the consideration that is moving is already a added ”thought” If one looks at movement of a cloud and do nothing else in that moment but observing that cloud… that that person will not see movement at all..
IF ONE IS IN THE MOMENT OF”” NOW”” that one wont even see a MOVEMENT because seeing movement how far that clouds moves… what speeds it goes than one already compares that cloud to other objects and JUDGES THE SPEED and the JUDGEMENT brings in considerations= beliefs which are made up from other beliefs judgements.
When one say there is motion than that is already outside of the NOW.
One sees motion only when it is relative.
KHTK Axiom #1: Neither the state of rest, nor the state of motion can be determined to exist in an absolute sense. All motion is relative.
DEFINITION: Absolute means, “Viewed independently; not comparative or relative; ultimate; intrinsic.”
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V.. I wonder here what is your reason asking us if you are already positive of the answers..
Because I am always looking for possible inconsistencies, so I can update my view.
I would like to know if you have an actual observation different from mine.
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. . . and vice versa. If one watches, looks closely at still things, one will see motion, time, and space. Is there anything else? Are energy and matter primary or secondary to this? We refer to matter as a condensate of energy. But is this true? If so, then matter is a secondary manifestation. What about energy?
Any type or variation of stillness perceived in the universe is a mental abstraction only and has no equal in the world except in the most relative sense.
V…”You see things as they are. Then you see relationships among things as they are.”
If one sees ”relationships” among things than one is all ready judging and any judgement can only happen THROUGH FILTERS. Judgement comes from having ”belief “” what is right and what is wrong” and those two concepts were made up by individuals and agreements were piled up on them.
right or wrong ; what is only exist among humans and when one decide what is right or wrong that comes from beliefs.. beliefs come from teachings from others and one goes into agreements with.
How do you know when you are not judging?
One could be judging what NOW is!
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when in the now the real fraction of the moment of creation when experienced there is no judgement and one knows that there is no judgement.
The moment of NOW is where judgement do not exist yet. It is just IS.
That is the direction mindfulness.takes. 🙂
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TO achieve the moment of NOW is not coming from judgement= what is right or what is wrong.. but realization that all creation is equal: That means just that Equal, all has the same value, nothing is bad or good. bigger or better, wrong or right. They are just there, they ARE=exist.. and there is no more to that.
From
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2. Observe things as they are, without assuming anything.
As you look do not assume anything. It is easy to assume what one normally expects to be there. For example, if you are looking at the profile of a person, you see only one ear, but you may take it for granted that the person has two ears. Separate the actual perception from the ideas of what should be there.
You may want to focus on this aspect of mindfulness next. Start the exercise as in 1 above, and observe without assuming anything. Let your observation be completely non-judgmental.
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10. Do not get hung up on name and form.
Mindfulness is to observe and notice things for what they are. To know something, you do not have to label it, or use words to describe it. Be aware that name and form may act as built-in judgment of what is there.
To practice this aspect of mindfulness, start with the exercise in 1 above. There should be no effort to judge by deliberately supplying name and form to what is there. You simply look and recognize what something is.
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V…”” Observe things as they are, without assuming anything.””
As I have written here that course ”Observing the obvious.'” was one of my first courses I have taken In the Vancouvers Mission in 1974. You are not saying anything new here. LRH compiled that course and was taken by many.
I never give out any new knowledge. I am just a magnifying glass!
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And for me is totally fine how you see the universe, and I don’t have the need or want to change any ones belief how they see the Universe.. I don’t have the need-desire -to judge compare different beliefs and to decide what is write or wrong and come to conclusion ”yes!!! this information is the correct info!”..and that leaves me out of any discussion.. Thanks again for the Invite..
Right you are… there is no new knowledge in existence in the Universe but one.
When one judges that others done something wrong or done much better than self or self know better than others with that judging has added VALUE: in this case others are less or more than self, have more power, or less power.
V.. we really talking in human terms… and that is not on the path of enlightenment.
Of course, one should not be judgmental. I have observed that when people become aware of how judgmental they are being, they cease to be judgmental. Nobody is knowingly judgmental.
How do we bring that awareness so that one ceases to be judgmental?
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“”How do we bring that awareness so that one ceases to be judgmental?””
I have no idea how others will do it but I HAVE achieved that state .
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So, you don’t judge anything or anybody at all?
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OH I do… example… toast the brad or not, have one or two cup of coffee today, how I see the day outside, what should I wear today. etc… just daily stuff which has to be done for the body. I have squared out the Universe where I am with it.. where I stand as not as a person-being but a ENTITY since person-being is only a concept therefore not existing in my reality. The knowledge I have gained while on the PATH OF ENLIGHTENMANT is mine alone and of course belongs to the Universe also. Since the Entity do not have ownership of anything in the Universe.
Eliz;
Have you recovered abilities as you have resolved confusions and inconsistencies of your past?
Mark
I would like to put in few more words: what ever you are aware of what ever you see with eyes and without those are your abilities.
V..That is the direction mindfulness.takes. 🙂
SO IS AUDITING… the only reason I know what I write is because Example: state of ”NOW”’ because I have achieved that state.. is that so difficult to comprehend ?
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What is the difference between AUDITING and mindfulness?
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You tell me that.. I am interested In that reality.
I see auditing as the application of mindfulness with a direction. The auditing process provides a direction. There are many hundreds of processes in Scientology.
One area of weakness and danger in Scientology auditing is C/Sing. Here another person determines what is needed by the preclear. This is external evaluation, which can and has gone wrong quite often requiring the use of correction lists.
Just the presence of Correction Lists in auditing tells me that something in the auditing procedure is missing.
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V…”’I see auditing as the application of mindfulness with a direction. The auditing process provides a direction”” this is your understanding of auditing and it is a good one. THAN you give in different post and asking if auditing contains those points.. Now, you tell me what was your reason asking when you already understood the principals what sessions-auditing is all about.???
This do not make any sense to me.. care to explain?
Eliz, I believe that absolutes are unattainable. So my understanding is not perfect. I am always looking for feedback in areas of my interest to see if there are any inconsistencies that I need to resolve.
It is through the resolution of inconsistencies that understanding is improved.
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in this question above again you are asking for explanation and this dont make sense since you already give definition an both and I have done the same… Care to explain again the reason behind these kind of questioning?
Please see my response above.
OK… but how many times I need to explain what is auditing?
You need to explain it as many times as necessary. Even a million times is not enough if somebody wants to know it.
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OK.. Since I only have one way to say it, one reality what is auditing and what it do than I recommend to the person who did not understand what I have written to reread it a million times or get auditing in order to gain reality. I am finished with this subject since this is not discussions.
Where will the person go to get the auditing you do. Are you willing to train others to audit?
At least I am training people on mindfulness. I have managed to come up with a format that is working. I now have to tweak it with the help of those on this blog.
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We all do what we all do.. You help because it pleases you and no other reason. What I do, how I help is my affair. But I do not put down others for not doing the same as I, like you have just done that to me. Best to you.. till next time.
I am sorry to say this but I see an inconsistency here. You are separating yourself from others. You are saying that others are responsible for themselves and that is not your problem.
That kind of stance goes against the goal of clearing the planet. If you don’t share that goal then that is fine.
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🙂 you have a great sense of humor, for a few minutes I believed what you have written. !!!
Sarcasm is beneath you, Liz. You can do better.
Mark
NO… and you have hidden standards… how one should behave and what one should say what is proper or what is not, that is wanting to control -regulate-putting down the law.. the must do this or else thing.. reprimanding others ..punishing for expressing different reality… look into it!
Eliz:
Perhaps I was recalling times I had been sarcastic, it was beneath me.
Sarcasm is not communication.
Mark
I no longer have husmail account… so I have no idea where you have sent your communication.
I can send e-mail anywhere, it does not have to be encrypted. I only got that account so that I could send PC reports to the C/S while I was delivering the purif from remote locations. Hushmail works just like yahoo or G-mail when not encrypted. I have written some short articles based on my experience that you may find interesting.
marknr@hushmail.com
Mark
I have given here in this blog 3 times my private email…I have opened a husmail account just for you, which you never used so it closed automatically.. I have given up..
”’Beneath me or beneath you”’.. that concept is truly a evaluation.. putting the person to a lower level, it is heavy judgement …
sarcasm is a communication, just take a look what it really is.
I would like to add a bit more: taking away the freedom of speech ..and applying censorship is part of control, and that indicates none confront… cant have, putting people into little boxes and when that is achieved the world will be a safer place to be in.. Good one… and you want to clear the planet.. I call that dictatorship.. yes and I have done much better… you have no idea what that little remark you have made really indicates…
To Eliz:
I admire your determinism and effort. I consider it one of the greatest abilities one can gain.
As for abilities gained during your work, can you be a little more detailed?
Me, I have found that, more and more I know what people are thinking during my conversations and interactions with them. I have discovered a tremendous love for all those I meet, whether friends or not, whether they are happy or troubled, whether they consider themselves allies or opponents. Lately, data is becoming very easy to understand and absorb. I’m finally ready to tackle those books on calculus I have lying on my shelf. I find myself seeing inside of objects more often. I can see the defects and gaps in the wood I have been working with. At the factory I worked at, I would occasionally see the parts inside of machines and resolve problems that were ongoing. I gained a reputation as a miracle worker but it was inconsistent. This work is incomplete since I have to intend to admire the device and observe ‘visions’ of it’s manufacture before I can ‘be it’ and ‘feel’ it’s operation.
I often see problems on the road before I come to them and take measures to prevent accidents for myself and drivers around me. My wife is starting to get used to this.
Three yrs. ago, I had a mini stroke which left an apathy and tiredness on my left side. I did positive processing to improve comm with that area, followed by a form of R3ra and located 22 similar instances of blood blockages in human and similar bodies. I then reviewed those lives for confusions and computations which related to this condition. A few days later, the blockage was gone, as indicated by another MRI. Other than that, I have not had a body illness since I did TR-0 at the age of 12 in 1969.
Assists are often very fast and effective. Usually I can get someone in a keyed out tone, touch and understand their body problem and it disappears. No mechanics.
I am very curious to know of some of your experiences.
Mark
What Buddha said is only a assumption …. a hear-say.. not a example I want to fallow.
I don’t remember giving out any assumptions of Buddha. So, I have no idea what you are talking about here.
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Eliz:
PS: I have written you twice, would you like me to re-send them?
Mark
Vin… When I went into scientology the Lists were considerably less.. and as I have continued with solo auditing I have discovered for my self the most affective way to handle the daily incoming stimulations. By doing that ones space is clean and one is continually winning knowing that no matter what kind of shit falls an ones head can be handled. No C/S was needed OR WANTED!!! The C/S is good for the beginners.. guiding is needed than but not after one has learned to solo audit.
While I audited without C/S I have taken TOTAL RESPONSIBILITY for self and for everything I do is my responsibility and there is no blame that others did what ever.
I never needed or even entered my mind that I needed correction lists since every session I have had ended with VGI,s.. Cognitions and that means F/N or F/T.
I do not say that some of the sessions were not difficult, I have written In my blog about the most difficult session I ever had… It went for 3 days.
I do not care where other scientologists are or what is the church doing since I have reality about the future and I know what will happen.
I also believe that every person is in the right place where ever they are on their Path of Enlightenment. Because every being on this planet is on that Path even if a person in this moment just killed his mother.
MARK…..Eliz;
Have you recovered abilities as you have resolved confusions and inconsistencies of your past?
E.. all of them and that is unimaginable what that contains by understanding of the human mind.
Let me remind the participants on this blog of the following policy.
Discussions and what needs to be avoided
No “self” should be allowed to enter the discussions… no blaming others… or defending oneself. Please keep to the subject in an objective manner.
Thank you.
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Currently, I am looking at the terms THETAN and INDIVIDUALITY as part of L10 process. It seems that many of these terms have to be understood fully to get the most out of L10.
I shall like to know the various understandings that exist about these terms. Your thoughts are welcome.
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Attention on SELF, either on oneself, or on the self of others, means to me that something on the subject of THETAN and INDIVIDUALITY needs to be resolved.
L10 requires that these be resolved. So I shall be using the following procedure to understand these concepts.
Mindful Subject Clearing
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When one wants to undertake “”CLEARING THE PLANET” than one has already entered into a conclusion that the planet population is in fact need to be changed, for the BETTER because they are in a BAD Shape, in their mind-thinking- in belief because their belief is wrong, should be different. need to be better.. HERE the person who believes that SELF IS THE ONE WHO CAN CHANGE THE CONDITION FOR THE BETTER is BY HIS or HER OWN JUDGEMENT is better person, know more than others, have the right answer, the write tool to do just that.
That means the person already separated self from others, has judged the actions-thinking-beliefs of these person is that they have less in every way including knowledge.
The persons who decide to save others believes of self that he is the savior of mankind…..OHHHHHH now we looking at here big ego in play… HUGE..
Any person who believes of self that self is the savior is on the power trip same as LRH, Hitler, Stalin and many other dictators of the past who believed that they had the power and knowledge to change the history of the Planet Earth.
Yes they have changed the History but that was already written in the Book of Future that it will happen and their influence changed the reality but never for the so called “BETTER”.
One singular persons thinking believing their singular knowledge have the power to influence =erase the believes of others that person don’t have the insight into others universe what that contains.
Believing in something like that is born out of self importance, know the best for others and that comes from some heavy judgement.
Judgement has nothing to do with being in a moment in the NOW.
Per the first Noble Truth, there is Dukkha. My idea behind “Clearing the Planet” would be to estanlish mindfulness across the planet. It would not eliminate the dukkha, but it would help reduce the effect of dukkha on self that is being mindful.
The idea of “saving the planet” does to fit with mindfulness. It is compassion and compassion alone that brings about the idea of spreading the knowledge and practice of mindfulness.
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Compassion is where one judges and very heavily!! because from judgements comes the conclusion that my way is better than yours because look at your life you are in deep shit and if you fallow my way than you will have a good worthwhile life like mine is. Compassion has been invented inserted into the history of mankind and I don’t see any good it has done outside of separation of self from others.. emphasises what is good and what is bad. Compassion is nothing more than the illusion of feeling superiority over others..
Elizabeth: Compassion is nothing more than the illusion of feeling superiority over others..
Chris: There IS that kind of compassion, that’s one way to look at it. But if the leaves on your roses burn, turn yellow, etc., do you act to save them by applying more water, fertilizer, or maybe pesticide?? I am trying to stay with your very good discussion here with Vinay.
Lets not confuse roses which are solid items with human beliefs.
But I can also see your point.. to have better reality- different reality from one do not like to experience. But, again When one offers better reality-viewpoints on the same subject is it really better or just different?
It can be only different, since ”value” : what is good or what is bad is established from personal viewpoint and collected agreements from others and anything agreed upon it is not the way to Enlightenment.
Good, so if a person hollers for help, we could show non-judgemental compassion and throw them a life-preserver. This is different from selling them an intensive of auditing and telling them their OCA testing is low and to keep them from committing suicide they must buy auditing at once. I get it.
No you don’t get it…I would not call scientology ideas compassionate. or LRH was for a minute. One can offer different idea to someone and that person do not have to feel any emotion about why that different idea is offered. One can offer something to the other person simply because one is communicating ideas at all times.
Why one has to feel sorry for any one? That is truly a judgemental action.
com·pas·sion noun
1. a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.
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pas·sion noun
1. any powerful or compelling emotion or feeling.
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Compassion does not come from judgment. Compassion swells up within the person by inherent nature. A person is simply moved by the observed inconsistencies to do something to resolve those inconsistencies.
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PS: Dictators have put down their own rules.. please examine the history and you can see that. Forced rules: my way is the only way out!!!
LRH had his own rules enforced in the CoS….
Enforced rules do bring changes but just changes and those changes are judged by the ”individual’ if they are better or worst.
History: the continual flow of activities change but its content is judged and the collected agreements will decide if the change experienced is for better or not..
Now, all that is not on the Path of Enlightenment…
Wanting to clear the Planet by saying ”I know better, I can do better because I have proved over and over that the other person is wrong, because was presenting a lie.. is ”looking through many filters-aberration of their own” and not being in the NOW where judgement do not exist.
I believe they have medical terms for people like them…something to do with being a maniac.
You are right. In mindfulness there is no judgment.
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and compassion is nothing but judgement of actions
This is my understanding of compassion from dictonary definitions.
Compassion does not arise from judgment.
YES it do.. and I don’t really care to read what a dictionary had to say. You need to examine that thought-consideration a bit closer and from selfs experience and do forget what others think and know. because all you have done so far is you have went into agreement with the dictionary.
The purpose of a dictionary is to list and delineate COMMONLY AGREED MEANINGS OF WORDS FOR THE PURPOSE OF ACCURATE COMMUNICATION. Not all agreement is bank agreement. If a word does not have the exact meaning of a concept one is trying to convey, use a different word or a combination of words to make one’s communication duplicateable. Perhaps compassion falls short of what you mean to say. Different languages makes this a bit more challenging.
Mark
🙂
I would allow you your reality. But my reality is different as I have expressed above. I expect you not to be judgmental here.
OK.. that is a controlling order. Thank you, I got it.
That would depend upon how you take it. 🙂
as you said it meant it.. and that is not liked at through filters.
It is how you judge it. 🙂
Right…it was requested to have different reality.. since what I have said was not the right one.
I didn’t say that. Nor did I imply it. You simply have your reality which is inconsistent with my reality. It doesn’t mean that you are wrong. How are you judging my reality to be?
different from how I see the Universe.
Correct! The KHTK word for this is inconsistency. 🙂
We have an inconsistency here… a lack of consistency or harmony. Inconsistencies abound among different religions.
PS: and one can see when one embark on such a journey is in TOTAL SEPARATION OF SELF FROM OTHERS AND THAT HAPPENS WHEN JUDGEMENT IS USED.. that person lives only by judgement
And I don’t believe that is Buddha’s way or ever was.
Buddha was completely non-judgmental and very compassionate. He pointed out the way to overcome dukkha through mindfulness. He spent all his life teaching others the process of mindfulness.
so what has to do with the price of tea in china at the present time? Experience of Gautama what is was, how it was is only a hearsay, a assumption and no one knows for sure what he had on mind when talked about his experiences. His words were not written in stone or no recording existing.
AND NO ONE COMES TO CONCLUSION OF ANY KIND IF NOT JUDGING !! NOT EVEN GAUTAMA! CAN NOT BE DONE!
Buddha’s teaching of mindfulness matters very much in present time. It is much more important than Buddha himself. Actually, Buddha doesn’t matter much to me.
I find mindfulness helping me and a lot of other people.
Gautama : Buddha have immense power yet the teaching only brought different ways of thinking into this Planet but that thinking could not erase-eliminate the so called bad-evil. from the mind=universe of individuals. [violence among the believers point to that fact]
You put your self even above him.. that you have more to offer and your ways are better than any man who has lived on this Planet..
Buddha’s teachings brought civilization to three-quarters of the world of his time. That is a remarkable accomplishment.
Compassion to handle inconsistencies is a natural outcome of mindfulness. It has nothing to do with putting importance on self. But some may think like that. That would be judgmental thinking.
”’Buddha’s teachings brought civilization to three-quarters of the world of his time. That is a remarkable accomplishment.” and down hill from there an all the way to the bottom of LRH’s Tone Scale.
Why one feels compassion? in the first place?
One may not feel compassion when one is unaware of inconsistencies.
One may become unaware of inconsistencies when one is not being mindful.
One goes downhill when one is not being mindful. That applies to OT VIIIs also.
You are speaking of generalities ”One goes downhill when one is not being mindful. That applies to OT VIIIs also.”” I wonder just how many OT VIII’s do you know in person so you can pass judgement on them where they are in comparison to your beliefs.
Do you believe that an OT VIII can never go downhill?
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Here you have not answered my question: why do you feel compassion in the first place? Care to answer that ?
Eliz:
Did you get my message? That may explain a lot.
Mark.
It explains how you see your own creation and no more outside of that What I read is my reality and that is not your reality.
In response to
E…”Here you have not answered my question: why do you feel compassion in the first place? Care to answer that ?”
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Sure. The answer lies in this short post.
Compassion arises from the inherent nature of consistency. There is a natural drive to resolve inconsistencies.
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V….””It does not matter what viewpoint one approaches with, the personal viewpoint shall gradually disappear as inconsistencies and assumptions are removed.
What will remain shall be the actual reality in all its glory.”” Do tell, if all viewpoints are removed what will remain ”IN ALL ITS GLORY?” have you figured that one out? That when one removes all viewpoints than there is no glory to anything since glory is evaluation of something?
E…”What will remain shall be the actual reality in all its glory.”” Do tell, if all viewpoints are removed what will remain ”IN ALL ITS GLORY?” have you figured that one out? That when one removes all viewpoints than there is no glory to anything since glory is evaluation of something?”
When all viewpoints are removed then it is the reality perceiving itself. That is what seems to me. 🙂
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V…. “Compassion to handle inconsistencies is a natural outcome of mindfulness.””” now, where the IDEA-consideration has come from the above? Who made that decision and who has agreed to that? Please…
In my view “who?” is an apparency. There is no permanent self that answers the question, “Who?”
A “Self” is simply a resultant vector of considerations that already exist.
Where do the considerations come from is just a matter of guess. Some people guess that something called a being creates the considerations. But then one is confronted with the inconsistency, “Where does the being come from?”
Haha!
OK.. you still not answered the question asked
Maybe I did. Please look at #5 of the Discussion Policy:
https://vinaire.me/2012/07/16/discussions-and-what-needs-to-be-avoided/
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thinking believing differently do not mean that one way of thinking is better than other, that one belief has more value than other believes. Value even when talking of civilization is from evaluations and collected agreement from many persons EXAMPLE: ice cream is good, ice cream is really bad for your health.. Good and bad what is, is from judgement and nothing more.
An inconsistency cannot be resolved by being judgmental.
People think they have resolved an inconsistency by thinking, “I am right and he is wrong” or “He is right and I am wrong.” But none of these considerations resolve the inconsistency.
That is what you are doing with LRH’s work.. he is wrong.. here and here and here he lies even! What you call that action, care to explain?
I don’t think that I am doing that.
It is fine with me and I am sure with others too, what ever you are doing is just IS.. it can never be any other ways.
Please don’t discuss the participants. That violates the discussion policy.
Let’s discuss “responsibility for clearing the planet”, which I believe is the subject we are discussing.
Vinaire.. if you would have read any of my posts than you would realised that I partake in clearing the Universe not just the planet. I have written in more than one of my post what ”cognitions do, how they effect the universe.” outside of that I can not give you different viewpoint. just because there is no reality on what I do that do not means it is not happening and not real.
I am simply pointing out the inconsistency between the following two data:
(1) The goal is clearing the planet.
(2) Everyone is responsible for their own condition, so I am not going to do anything to help change their condition.
If (2) is not your position then I would like to know how you are helping others change their condition.
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Everything you know has been said before you are saying here and had been said by those who had influence and power.. yet not one of them had enough knowledge=power to erase the ”bad-evil’ from the Universe.. there is some assessment needed for self and new different reality is wanted -needed to establish what motivates the self who put self above all.
Until there remain inconsistencies the ‘bad-evil’ shall remain.
One may separate oneself from others and hide in their own universe, but that is simply a non-confront and you know it. The ‘bad-evil’ shall continue until the inconsistencies are resolved and not just avoided.
This is Dukkha of the First Noble Truth of Buddha.
In the CofS we all had to study the meanings of words and come to the same understanding. there were lists, to do, same as here. When somebody expressed different reality well, you know what has happened to that person. Here in this blog the persons post is erased and the person is told that cant post here any more because have not fallowed the ESTABLISHED RULES!!!! YOUR RULES.
You demand there is only one way to WHAT? TO THINK and believe in the same, talk the same way, think the same way…And you also believe that your way which is the conclusion of yours that is the way to Nirvana what ever that is in your reality.
Educated people who went to some university believe that one can only be educated if had lots of education in one of those great universities and other people just don’t have knowledge because they ” never been educated by the right educators”
Here is the question. What University Gautama went to? Which University Lao tsu have been educated or rest of the great philosophers went to?
Why I am asking these questions.. ??? you are looking for inconsistencies in beliefs-thinking. Well, always good place to start and examine how self thinks and believes in before embark on the adventure of wanting to change 6-9 billions people’s beliefs.
If you have disagreement with the policy of this blog then discuss it.
Why deal in blame game?
I have not blamed any one, just expressed MY REALITY.. if seen as blame than I apologise for that.
Yes, you can participate in the discussion without becoming personal.
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E… “And you also believe that your way which is the conclusion of yours that is the way to Nirvana what ever that is in your reality.”
This is judgmental.
judgemental and not mindful … right
Please discuss the subject and not the participants of the discussion. If you have disagreement with the Discussion policy then I am open for discussion on that.
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E… “Well, always good place to start and examine how self thinks and believes in before embark on the adventure of wanting to change 6-9 billions people’s beliefs.”
There is an assumption here. Buddha taught mindfulness not to change anybody’s mind. He was simply teaching a skill.
Right
right.
Here is a big inconsistency in your teaching. Clearing the Planet. You do not believe that scientology method ” auditing” can achieve it and tens of thousands have gained different reality by having been audited or solo audited and yet you do not believe that auditing works yet you have put together MODELED your ”method” on scientology auditing principals and believe that it will achieve that.. CLEAR THE PLANET! Of what I may ask?
Well, the whole idea of yours even if it is on paper has not been tested by many thousands and attested yes that they have had life changing wins.
You call ”recalls” of the past , those who have written about such as I have that they have illusions.. good point, but what is the difference between your grand illusions or LRH’s, you both want to clear the planet what you believe in is wrong and make the population believe what is right by your very own viewpoints-reality.
You call it mindful looking he called it confronting thing as they are.
This post from Elizabeth is judgmental and violates discussion policy.
Discussions and what needs to be avoided
Mindfulness is a skill. It does not require anybody to hold any beliefs.
Right.
On the subject of freedom and questioning authority, I have fallen in love with this song and its passion: “ Hum dekhenge by Iqbal bano,” but I am at loss to understand the story. Can you help translate it? Here’s an English rendition of the words:
Hum dekhenge
Lazim hai ke hum bhi dekhenge
Woh din ke jis ka waada hai
Jo loh-e-azl pe likha hai
Hum dekhenge
Jab zulm-o-sitam ke koh-e-garaan
Rui ki tarah ud jayenge
Hum mehkumoon ke paun tale
Yeh dharti dhad dhad dhadkagi
Aur ehl-e-hukum ke sar upar
Jab bijli kad kad kadkegi
Hum dekhenge
Jab arz-e-khuda ke Kabe se
Sab but uthwaye jayenge
Hum ahl-e-safa mardood-e-haram
Masnad pe bithaye jayenge
Sab taaj uchale jayenge
Sab takht giraye jayenga
Bas naam rahega Allah ka
Jo ghayab bhi hai hazir bhi
Jo nazir bhi hai manzar bhi
Uthega nalhaq ka naara
Jomain bhi hoon aur tum bhi ho
Aur raaj karegi khalq-e-khuda
Jo main bhi hoon aur tum bhi ho
Hum dekhenge
Lazim hai ke hum bhi dekhenge
Hum dekhenge
You are right that that the beautiful lyrics of this song are about freedom and questioning authority. The language is Urdu and not Hindi. I understand 90% of it, but the 10% that I don’t understand may mess up the deeper meaning.
I have, therefore, asked a Muslim friend of mine to translate it for both of us. I shall provide that translation as soon as I receive it.
I love this woman’s voice and enunciation. Do you like the song?
Chris:
Get a chance to go over this article? It has a few points that I believe deserve comment.
Mark
I will Mark.
Chris, Part of the translation provided for that song is quite accurate, “Certainly we, too, shall witness that day … When these high mountains/Of tyranny and oppression turn to fluff and evaporate/And we oppressed/Beneath our feet will this earth shiver, shake and beat/And heads of rulers will be struck/With crackling lightening and thunder roars/When crowns will be flung in the air — and thrones will be overturned …,” The crowd went wild at these words of open opposition to government’s tyranny.
In 1947, when the British crown could no longer control the protest against its rule, it turned over the authority to Indian leaders. The politics of the times divided British India into secular India and Muslim Pakistan. It is interesting to note that there are more muslims in secular India than there are muslims in religious Pakistan. The muslims in secular India have lived peacefully for the most part. But Muslim Pakistan has never been stable politically. Even the two parts of Pakistan fell out of union. The East Pakistan separated itself from the tyrannical domination of West Pakistan and became Bangladesh in 1971 (see Wikipedia).
West Pakistan is now called Pakistan. The word Pakistan means, “the sacred land”. It is a Muslim country. It has always been in conflict with secular India. Its rule has been tyrannical since its inception. It has been ruled by dictators. It has hardly seen any democracy. It is very similar in structure to Scientology. There are really warm hearted good people there; but they are trapped within the system. They aspire for freedom from the dictatorship, but sadly, any protests are violently crushed. The current situation in Pakistan is pretty chaotic. It is like a criminal element ruling the country.
During this same period, secular India has made great progress. The government of India is also quite corrupted and India is also full of protest against its political system. But those protests are not suppressed and there is no government violence. The system is chugging along due to its inertia and changing only too slowly for most people.
Yes, I like this singer’s voice and the song. I grew up near Delhi as a Hindu with a large muslim community around me. The common people (Hindus and Muslims) lived in peace. It was only once that I saw a communal conflict flare up. But that was incited by political moves.
V…”Do you believe that an OT VIII can never go downhill?”” I have asked you a question.. please answer that one first .. than I give you my reality ON ALL OT actions and where they live the those persons who has done those levels.
I think in terms of general principles. I believe in the principle that if one is not applying mindfulness then one would go downhill. I do not see how this principle will exclude OT VIIIs.
Therefore, I believe that an OT VIII, who is not applying mindfulness shall go downhill.
”downhill”” is your reality to which you have arrived at from evaluating what is good or bad.. Judgement and nothing more from your viewpoints.
I truly have no reality of my own. Whatever is expressed through me is the summation of the considerations surrounding me.