NIRVANA

Nirvana1

We come across the term “Nirvana” in the context of Buddhism. Buddha is said to have attained nirvana in his thirties. He then lived actively to a grand age of 80, a rarity for his time.

Does nirvana mean withdrawing from living or from the world? Buddha’s life demonstrates just the opposite.

In my opinion, nirvana is attaining the NULL VIEWPOINT. There is no fixed beingness engaged in viewing.

The null viewpoint is not based on any consideration. It is not assuming anything. It is not withdrawing or resisting.  It is just looking.

Nirvana is a state in which one is looking at the Universe of Consideration without the filter of fixed beingness or consideration of any sort. In short…

In Nirvana one is not looking through the filter of beingness or consideration. A filter has permananence or solidity.  But in nirvana, beingness and considerations are continually being created and dissolved.

In nirvana, one is very much alive; and one is participating to the fullest in this universe .

That is true enlightenment.

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Added on May 26, 2012:

Nirvana is not a state, or a realm, or a position in which there is some sort of existence. There is no such thing as ‘entering into Nirvāna after death’. To realize Nirvana is to be ‘blown out.’ To realize parinirvana after death, is to be ‘fully blown out.’ The forces and energies that are manifesting as beingness are fully extiguished.

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Comments

  • anonymuse  On July 17, 2010 at 7:06 AM

    Beautiful view 🙂

  • thetanforever  On May 26, 2011 at 10:11 AM

    Interesting. I like your essays.

    I am envious that you are progressing so fast, and i do no. 🙂

    I read some of your comments elsewhere around on Geir’s blog, and some on ESMB, and some of your ideas i like, but some of them i feel like they invalidate my viewpoints.

    So i decided to try talking with you. I hope you will have some time.

    If i understood some things correctly, you think that the wholetrack implants that Ron described are not real, and that they are his dub-ins. ?

    For example, OT 2 GPM implant platens.

    I think that that happened for real.

    Since we are soo deeply entraped by this MEST universe, i think that these GMP implants (and lot of others) are real. I think they happened on the wholetrack line.

    Ok, on Geir’s blog i recommended to you and Geir (and to all others) to take a look at Pilot’s Cosmic History.

    And i still feel sad and bit invalidated that nobody acknowledged that, and that nobody looked at it.

    So, can you look at it?

    It is about 40 pages of great material about cosmic history. Way much better than Ron’s descriptions, and it is is written in Scientology style.

    I really believe that reading that you can have some new realisations and increase your understanding.

    And i would like to see your thoughts about that, if you will have some.

    Here’s the book. You will find there chapter Cosmic History.
    http://www.freezoneearth.org/pub/Super%20Scio.pdf

    There is there also idea about “Cosmic reach and withdraw”
    what i saw you also mentioned somewhere.

    And the idea about first implant we received immediately after we were separated from the “static”, the Jewel of Knowledge.

    Tell me if you will take a look at that. 🙂

    • vinaire  On May 26, 2011 at 12:40 PM

      Thank you, thetanforever. I am sorry that some of my ideas invalidate your viewpoint. I hope you can bring up the specifics here so we can discuss. I am sure we both will learn from such a discussion.

      I have no doubt that the wholetrack implants, which Hubbard talked about, were real to him. They would be real to anybody who believes in them. That is how considerations work. I just think there is a simpler explanation for what influences a person. In my experience, all such influences may be addressed much faster through LOOKING, as I continue to document in my essays. I am following the principes that Buddha recommended. Scientology works to the degree it follows those principles.

      I may look at Pilot’s materials but it is not a priority for me. Right now I am looking at KNOWLEDGE as a subject itself, and putting together an essay on it.

      I may request you to look at KHTK essays and start doing the exercises from the beginning in the sequence they appear, as Bunkai seems to be doing. I would love to have feedback so I can improve upon these essays and exercises. I won’t feel invalidated if you don’t do this. 🙂

      ~Vinaire

      • thetanforever  On May 27, 2011 at 3:39 PM

        Thank you for answering me, and for writing nice comment. 🙂

        I think that this communication, and more confront on my part are making that older disagreements less important.

        I looked at KHTKs yesterday and i liked it, and felt some relief.

        I looked at KHTK PDF files even before, half or year ago, but then i felt unable to use them properly, since i am lacking in persistence and will, or at least i feel so.

        My nick is Alsmivi on the SCN and ESMB forum. We met before. 🙂

        I will try to study and use more of these KHTK exercises.

      • vinaire  On May 27, 2011 at 7:25 PM

        The essays as visible on my blog are much more recent than what is on the pdf file. I hope to update the pdf file soon.

        Please focus on KHTK #1 only and do its exercises before you reply to my post. Those exercises should not take you more than 10 minutes. I would like to know how well those exercises introduce the concept of LOOKING.

        Your feedback is important to me. Based on such feedback I keep on updating these essays.

        Thanks,
        ~Vinaire

      • thetanforever  On May 28, 2011 at 1:57 PM

        Yes, i noticed that current versions of KHTK are revised (improved?).

        I do not think that my fedback on this can be precise enough.

        I tried exercises from KHTK#1, i think they are fine. I noticed that while looking my mind is giving meanings and purposes of things.

        Last days and months, i tried often looking at things, and i always experienced some relief when doing it. So i believe looking is workable.

        But i stil find hard to do things in sequence and finishing cycles of actions (like doing exercises).

      • vinaire  On May 28, 2011 at 3:26 PM

        Comment on: “But i stil find hard to do things in sequence and finishing cycles of actions (like doing exercises).”

        The following is from KHTK 7: SUMMARY

        “LOOKING by its nature is totally effortless. If there is any effort it comes from thinking on top of suppressed data.”

        Check out Exercise 8-3 from KHTK 8: KHTK EXERCISE SET I

        ~Vinaire

      • thetanforever  On June 1, 2011 at 2:39 PM

        Ok. Maybe it is so.

        I checked that exercise (KHTK 8-3), and i am doing something very similar sometimes, it helps, but still i have some somatics restimulated everyday that wont give up so easily, maybe i need months and years of looking and working with such basic processes to blow these annoying somatics.

        And i am doing, almost everyday somee basic processes.
        I don’t do complicated processes because i cannot do them right.

        🙂

      • vinaire  On June 1, 2011 at 7:13 PM

        OK, I can help speed that up through guided looking. Write to me at my email address.

        .

      • thetanforever  On June 6, 2011 at 5:55 AM

        Thank you for support. But i think i will try do it on my own. 🙂
        I think that some encouragement and sharing theories from your side is useful enough.

  • vinaire  On May 27, 2011 at 9:10 PM

    Looking at how Hubbard passed away, and how the Pilot passed away, I see an inconsistency in what they believed to be the route to enlightenment, and its effect on them.

    If I read their material, it would not be to follow their methods, but to find inconsistencies in their methods. It is only when all the inconsistencies have been ironed out, that the knowledge can be trusted.

    ~Vinaire

    • thetanforever  On May 28, 2011 at 2:02 PM

      Ok. A search for inconistencies. 🙂

    • thetanforever  On June 6, 2011 at 5:58 AM

      Maybe peope on this planet are not supposed to have superpowers (siddhis?). So anybody who is trying to attain superpowers becomes a target from those that are keeping this prison planet.

      I believe that both LRH and Pilot were killed because of that.

  • vinaire  On May 27, 2011 at 9:32 PM

    Comment on the following:

    “Here’s the book. You will find there chapter Cosmic History. http://www.freezoneearth.org/pub/Super%20Scio.pdf

    (1) I believe that the past is not as important as the freeing up of attention. When the attention is freed up after looking at some stored information, then there is nothing more that needs to be done with that information. It’s usefulness is over.

    (2) When another person provides you with information as being from your past, then the first thing to realize is that it is not something that you retrieved from your own stored information.

    (3) Cosmic history is merely a suggestion that it is part of your stored information. Actually it is something that is being offered to you. It is not coming to you from your mind.

    (4) One should look at what the mind offers. One should not go about foraging into the mind though.

    (5) A suggestion given by another may bring up something in your mind. What is useful to look at is what the mind brings up, and not what is being suggested by another.

    (6) If a suggestion doesn’t bring up anything in the mind then it is better to simply ignore that suggestion.

    (7) So I may look at this Cosmic History just to see if it brings up anything intersting in my mind, and then to look at whatever comes up. Other than being a trigger Cosmic history has no use.

    ~Vinaire

  • vinaire  On May 27, 2011 at 10:13 PM

    The Pilot states on page 7:

    “The research line of regression therapy was never followed up properly by the professionals in psychotherapy. The problem was that regression therapy will quickly open up past lives. This made it obviously false to anyone who had the average scientist’s anti-religious bias. In modern times, this prejudice has faded and you will find some psychotherapists practicing regression therapy, and it is almost always referred to as past life regression because that is what it inevitably leads to.”

    “Past lives” is not the problem. Giving it undue importance is!

    What is called “past lives” is primarily some stored information; and “stored information” is just that. No further significance needs to be attached to it.

    (1) The information is stored simply to keep the attention in that area.

    (2) The attention is fixed in that area because something related to it is unresolved.

    (3) It is unresolved because some necessary bit of information is suppressed and put out of sight.

    (4) You don’t know what you need to know to bring about the resolution.

    (4) The solution is to learn to LOOK per KHTK #1.

    (5) The stress should not be put on “regression.” The stress should be put on LOOKING.

    ~Vinaire

  • vinaire  On May 27, 2011 at 10:23 PM

    thetanforever, my question to you is. “What comes up in your mind when you think of Cosmic History?” “Does it forward some kind of hope?” “Does it seem to resolve some mystery?

    Take an honest look at what your mind is bringing up in this area.

    .

    • thetanforever  On May 28, 2011 at 2:53 PM

      I will try to answer.

      I think there are few things that are very interesting to me in Pilot’s description of Cosmic history.

      The idea about first implant that we received. According to Pilot, the implant was like a tutorial, and some of the data that was presented to us there was intentionaly false.

      These implanted ideas from there are possibly the basics of abberations, and basics of enforced agreements (further implanting), and basics of inventing rules, etc.

      One idea form that implant is idea that beings must enforce agreement upon others when others do something against the reality.

      That idea led us to creating an agreed upon reality more and more solidly, so that nobody can destroy (alter) the reality (now known as MEST).

      And, i find this dramatized everywhere. CofS also dramatizes it.

      There are more ideas that we received from that first implant. (detailed chapter about first implant is in Super Scio book, pages 558 to 566)

      So the useful thing about this is knowing from where basic false data comes, and what is anatomy of it, and of course comparing it to everyday life and seeing real life dramatizations that comes basically from these ideas.

      And i see that your ideas of LOOKING are going in the direction of dispelling of that first implant. I find your ideas useful.

      Other reason why i like that Cosmic history is the idea that our basic purpose goes towards richness of creation. That is the urge of beings. The purpose is not to serve god, like presented in parts of religions. The purpose is not being nothing. The purpose is not being everytying. The basic purpose, according the Pilot’s ideas is the richenss of creation. And i find it very encouraging and hopeful.

      So i can say that Cosmic history brings to my mind some hope, and it solves some mystery. 🙂

      Also, the Hubbard’s book History of man is very confusing, and the Pilot’s Cosmic history is sorting out this confusion to some degree.

      • vinaire  On May 28, 2011 at 3:45 PM

        thetanforever said:
        “I think there are few things that are very interesting to me in Pilot’s description of Cosmic history.

        The idea about first implant that we received. According to Pilot, the implant was like a tutorial, and some of the data that was presented to us there was intentionaly false.”

        OK, the key idea here is that of an “implant” which seems to me like installing a permanent filter, and one is conditioned to look through that filter. This tells me that an implant will stay in place as long as one is not aware of it as an implant. As soon as one becomes aware of the implant it is no longer effective. It is as good as gone.

        Your use of the word “we” is interesting. Who is the recepient of the implant? Is there an entity that you are identifying as “we”? Could the consideration of “we” be an implant itself? Are you being given a tutorial by the Pilot? Who or what is receiving this tutorial? Is there a filter here of some ‘beingness” that you are looking through?

        OK, all these questions from me could be suggestive. Just be aware of their suggestive value and look at what comes up in your mind in response to these questions.

        Hope you have fun doing this. 🙂

        ~Vinaire

      • thetanforever  On June 1, 2011 at 2:56 PM

        Yes, there is some fun. And suggesting things like that is ok, like asking questions, without evaluations and invalidations (or using these minimally as possible).

        I see there are fixations on beingnesses, but i am not yet on a level to overcome that. Anyway thank you for asking these questions.

        I like your explanation about implant being an installed permanent filter.

  • vinaire  On June 1, 2011 at 7:09 PM

    If you want I’ll be happy to guide you through a bit of Looking, until you can do it yourself. Write to me at my email address “vinaire@yahoo.com”.

    .

  • Kevin Osborne  On February 9, 2012 at 2:00 AM

    Hey Vincenzo
    Hope you are well! The looking/understanding game is quite a hoot, huh? Please give my best to your wife, and y’all be happy and safe.
    Kevin Osborne
    Nexus100 in days of yore

  • vinaire  On February 9, 2012 at 7:50 AM

    Hello Kevin (Nexus),

    It is great to see you here. We all are fine and doing well. Hope everything is going well for you too.

    Vinay (Vinaire)… umm Vincenzo

    .

  • Kevin Osborne  On February 10, 2012 at 6:55 PM

    Thank you!

    Everything is well over here. Looking forward to seeing all the viewpoints in your blog.

  • vinaire  On February 10, 2012 at 7:10 PM

    Great! My main search right now is to understand why the speed of light is constant in space.

    .

  • Kevin Osborne  On February 10, 2012 at 7:13 PM

    With regard to the subject, a reasonable approach is that one’s viewpoint is true. There can be no false ideas as everyhing imaginable is a creation of God, perceived by God. For example, one’s viewpoint in thinking that there are false ideas is accurate within one’s viewpoint. But any individual perception is not all there is to perception.

    So a way to look at life is everything is true, amd there is always more truth, always more to see, always more to understand. So long, of course, as one views into this place.

    • vinaire  On February 10, 2012 at 7:18 PM

      How do you define God and truth? Are these absolute concepts?

      .

    • vinaire  On February 11, 2012 at 7:14 AM

      My viewpoints on God are expressed here:

      Essay #7: THE NATURE OF GOD

      CAN GOD BE DEFINED?

      What are your viewpoints on God?

      Since so many of your arguments have been based on God (here or elsewhere), lets take a fresh look at that basis first, if you don’t mind.

      .

      .

    • vinaire  On February 11, 2012 at 7:26 AM

      On truth, I have the following to say:

      Essay #9: THE NATURE OF TRUTH

      KHTK 6: INCONSISTENCY

      Let’s establish a baseline on this concept too before we use it in other arguments.

      .

    • vinaire  On February 11, 2012 at 7:40 AM

      One’s viewpoint can be consistent or inconsistent within itself or with its surroundings.

      I agree that a single isolated datum cannot be evaluated as true or false. It must be compared with other data to evaluate it. And even then, one cannot say which datum is true and which datum is false. But one can always say if there is inconsistency. There is the relativity of logic.

      The primary inconsistency that I see in your arguments is the introduction of seemingly arbitrary concept of God, and an assumption based on that concept that there can be no false ideas.

      .

  • vinaire  On May 8, 2012 at 1:24 PM

    With reference to his own Enlightenment the Buddha said:

    ‘The eye was born, knowledge was born, wisdom was born, science was born, and light was born.’

    It is always seeing through knowledge or wisdom (ŭāna-dassana), and not believing through faith.

    .

  • vinaire  On May 10, 2012 at 7:25 PM

    Compassion is deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it. In my view the key to Buddha’s teaching is the understanding of mindfulness. That means being aware of what is there just as it is, moment to moment. This mindfulness itself relieves any suffering.

    In my view another key to the understanding of Buddha’s teaching is that everything is in a flux. Nothing is permanent. There is nothing that we can hold on to forever. We cannot hold on to the body. We cannot hold on to any idea or thought. We cannopt hold on to any perception. We cannot even hold on to the atman as there is no constancy even there. Once a person realizes that then there is nothing to be sorrowful about.

    I think, that compassion is built into the very teaching of Buddha, as that teaching, once understood, relieves all suffering. Nirvana results from a complete understanding of that teaching. The ultimate kindness that one can show is to impart that teaching, and this too is built into Buddhism.

    It seems funny but compassion and kindness emerges by itself as one follows the teachings of Buddha.

  • vinaire  On May 22, 2012 at 12:38 PM

    Nirvana can be expressed only in negative terms, “What it is not,” because it is not something.

    From “What the Buddha Taught”

    ‘Here the four elements of solidity, fluidity, heat and motion have no place; the notions of length and breadth, the subtle and the gross, good and evil, name and form are altogether destroyed; neither this world nor the other, nor coming, going or standing, neither death nor birth, nor sense-objects are to be found.’

    .

  • vinaire  On May 30, 2012 at 3:13 PM

    From What the Buddha Taught:

    “In almost all religions the summmum bonum can be attained only after death. But Nirvāna can be realized in this very life; it is not necessary to wait till you die to ‘attain’ it.

    “He who has realizes the Truth, Nirvana, is the happiest being in the world. He is free from all ‘complexes’ and obsessions, the worries and troubles that torment others. His mental health is perfect. He does not repent the past, nor does he brood over the future. He lives fully in the present.[28] Therefore he appreciated and enjoys things in the purest sense without self-projections. He is joyful, exultant, enjoying the pure life, his faculties pleased, free from anxiety, serene and peaceful.[29] As he is free from selfish, desire, hatred, ignorance, conceit, and all such ‘defilements’, he is pure and gentle, full of universal love, compassion, kindness, sympathy, understanding and tolerance. His service to others is of the purest, for he has no thought of self. He gains nothing, accumulates, nothing, not even anything spiritual, because he is free from the illusion of Self, and the ‘thirst’ for becoming.”

    .

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 6:19 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    “As long as one has not realized God, one should renounce the world, following the process of ‘Neti, neti.’ But he who has attained God knows that it is God who has become all this. Then he sees that God, maya, living beings, and the universe form one whole. God includes the universe and its living beings. Suppose you have separated the shell, flesh, and seeds of a bel-fruit and someone asks you the weight of the fruit. Will you leave aside the shell and the seeds, and weigh only the flesh? Not at all. To know the real weight of the fruit, you must weigh the whole of it-the shell, the flesh, and the seeds. Only then can you tell its real weight. The shell may be likened to the universe, and the seeds to living beings. While one is engaged in discrimination one says to oneself that the universe and the living beings are non-Self and unsubstantial. At that time one thinks of the flesh alone as the substance, and the shell and seeds as unsubstantial. But after discrimination is over, one feels that all three parts of the fruit together form a unity. Then one further realizes that the stuff that has produced the flesh of the fruit has also produced the shell and seeds. To know the real nature of the bel-fruit one must know all three.

    “It is the process of evolution and involution. The world, after its dissolution, remains involved in God; and God, at the time of creation, evolves as the world. Butter goes with buttermilk, and buttermilk goes with butter. If there is a thing called buttermilk, then butter also exists; and if there is a thing called butter, then buttermilk also exists. If the Self exists, then the non-Self must also exist.

    “The phenomenal world belongs to that very Reality to which the Absolute belongs; again, the Absolute belongs to that very Reality to which the phenomenal world belongs. He who is realized as God has also become the universe and its living beings. One who knows the Truth knows that it is He alone who has become father and mother, child and neighbour, man and animal, good and bad, holy and unholy, and so forth.”

    .

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 6:39 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    NEIGHBOUR: “Then is there no virtue and no sin?”

    MASTER: “They both exist and do not exist. If God keeps the ego in a man, then He keeps in him the sense of differentiation and also the sense of virtue and sin. But in a rare few He completely effaces the ego and these go beyond virtue and sin, good and bad. As long as a man has not realized God, he retains the sense of differentiation and the knowledge of good and bad. You may say: ‘Virtue and sin are the same to me. I am doing only as God bids me.’ But you know in your heart of hearts that those are mere words. No sooner do you commit an evil deed than you feel a palpitation in your heart. Even after God has been realized, He keeps in the mind of the devotee, if He so desires, the feeling of the ‘servant ego’. In that state the devotee says, ‘O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.’ Such a devotee enjoys only spiritual talk and spiritual deeds. He does not enjoy the company of ungodly people. He does not care for any work that is not of a holy nature. So you see that God keeps the sense of differentiation even in such a devotee.”

    NEIGHBOUR: “You ask us, sir, to live in the world after knowing God. Can God really be known?”

    MASTER: “God cannot be known by the sense-organs or by this mind; but He can be known by the pure mind, the mind that is free from worldly desires.”

    NEIGHBOUR: “Who can know God?”

    MASTER: “Right. Who can really know Him? But as for us, it is enough to know as much of Him as we need. What need have I of a whole well of water? One jar is more than enough for me. An ant went to a sugar hill. Did it need the entire hill? A grain or two of sugar was more than enough.”

    NEIGHBOUR: “Sir, we are like typhoid patients. How can we be satisfied with one jar of water? We feel like knowing, the whole of God.”

    MASTER: “That’s true. But there is also medicine for typhoid.”

    NEIGHBOUR: “What is that medicine, sir?”

    MASTER: “The company of holy men, repeating the name of God and singing His glories, and unceasing prayer. I prayed to the Divine Mother: ‘Mother, I don’t seek knowledge. Here, take Thy knowledge, take Thy ignorance. Give me only pure love for Thy Lotus Feet.’ I didn’t ask for anything else.

    “As is the disease, so must the remedy be. The Lord says in the Gitā: ‘O Arjuna, take refuge in Me. I shall deliver you from all sins.’ Take shelter at His feet: He will give you right understanding. He will take entire responsibility for you. Then you will get rid of the typhoid. Can one ever know God with such a mind as this? Can one pour four seers of milk into a one-seer pot? Can we ever know God unless He lets us know Him? Therefore I say, take shelter in God. Let Him do whatever He likes. He is self-willed. What power is there in a man?”

    .

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 6:53 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    HARI: “Why is there so much suffering in the world?”

    MASTER: “This world is the līlā of God. It is like a game. In this game there are joy and sorrow, virtue and vice, knowledge and ignorance, good and evil. The game cannot continue if sin and suffering are altogether eliminated from the creation.

    “In the game of hide-and-seek one must touch the ‘granny’ in order to be free. But the ‘granny’ is never pleased if she is touched at the very outset. It is God’s wish that the play should continue for some time. Then-

    Out of a hundred thousand kites, at best but one or two break free; And Thou dost laugh and clap Thy hands, O Mother, watching them!

    In other words, after the practice of hard spiritual discipline, one or two have the vision of God, through His grace, and are liberated. Then the Divine Mother claps Her hands in joy and exclaims, ‘Bravo! There they go!’ ”

    HARI: “But this play of God is our death.”

    MASTER (smiling): “Please tell me who you are. God alone has become all this-māyā, the universe, living beings, and the twenty-four cosmic principles. ‘As the snake I bite, and as the charmer I cure.’ It is God Himself who has become both vidyā and avidyā. He remains deluded by the māyā of avidyā, ignorance. Again, with the help of the guru, He is cured by the māyā of vidyā, Knowledge.

    “Ignorance, Knowledge, and Perfect Wisdom. The Jnāni sees that God alone exists and is the Doer, that He creates, preserves, and destroys. The vijnāni sees that it is God who has become all this.

    .

    • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 1:39 PM

      An initial goal to satisfy these conditions would be first “balance,” and achieving that “reduction.”

    • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 3:28 PM

      I think that the balance is achieved by resolving inconsistencies and incoherencies as one comes across them.

      • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 5:01 PM

        “I think that the balance is achieved by resolving inconsistencies and incoherencies as one comes across them.”

        There is always more balance. I like the equilibrium of balance as that helps resolve paradoxes of living such as should I turn the other cheek if someone is actively harming me. The balanced answer being no, one needn’t suffer needlessly at the hands of another and that one may defend oneself without feeling anger or hatred while doing so. This type of paradox generated by the Christian “turning the other cheek” paradox. In the same way, Gandhi “turned the other cheek” and sent the destructively superior British Army packing in the only way that it could be defeated in that scenario through non-violent resistance. The Indians took a lot of cracked skulls but avoided a major slaughter by taking the oblique angle rather than a going directly at the British war machine.

        • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 5:52 PM

          Yup! Simply resist the harmful force as it comes towards you, without retaliating harmfully.

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 7:25 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    MASTER: “The vijnāni always sees God. That is why he is so indifferent about the world. He sees God even with his eyes open. Sometimes he comes down to the Lila from the Nitya, and sometimes he goes up to the Nitya from the Lila.”

    PUNDIT: “I don’t understand that.”

    MASTER: “The Jnāni reasons about the world through the process of ‘Neti, neti’, and at last reaches the Eternal and Indivisible Satchidananda. He reasons in this manner: ‘Brahman is not the living beings; It is neither the universe nor the twenty-four cosmic principles.’ As a result of such reasoning he attains the Absolute. Then he realizes that it is the Absolute that has become all this-the universe, its living beings, and the twenty-four cosmic principles.

    “Milk sets into curd, and the curd is churned into butter. After extracting the butter one realizes that butter is not essentially different from buttermilk and buttermilk not essentially different from butter. The bark of a tree goes with the pith and the pith goes with the bark.”

    PUNDIT (smiling, to Bhudar): “Did you understand that? It is very difficult.”

    MASTER: “If there is butter, there must be buttermilk also. If you think of butter, you must also think of buttermilk along with it; for there cannot be any butter without buttermilk. Just so, if you accept the Nitya, you must also accept the Lila. It is the process of negation and affirmation. You realize the Nitya by negating the Lila. Then you affirm the Lila, seeing in it the manifestation of the Nitya. One attains this state after realizing Reality in both aspects: Personal and Impersonal. The Personal is the embodiment of Chit, Consciousness; and the Impersonal is the Indivisible Satchidananda.

    “Brahman alone has become everything. Therefore to be vijnāni this world is a ‘mansion of myrth’. But to the Jnāni it is a ‘framework of illusion’. Ramprasad described the world as a ‘framework of illusion’. Another man said to him by way of retort:

    This very world is a mansion of myrth; Here I can eat, here drink and make merry. O physician, you are a fool! You see only the surface of things. Janaka’s might was unsurpassed; What did he lack of the world or the Spirit? Holding to one as well as the other, He drank his milk from a brimming cup!

    “The vijnāni enjoys the bliss of God in a richer way. Some have heard of milk, some have seen it, and some have drunk it. The vijnāni has drunk milk, enjoyed it, and been nourished by it.”

    .

    • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 1:41 PM

      It seems that the wisdom of the ages resides at the core, the basic essence of many religions before the considerations pile on.

    • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 3:49 PM

      As I see, he is basically talking about mindfulness here. ‘Neti, Neti’ leads one to the recognition that absolute does not lie in the realm of awareness. Anything that one can be aware of is relative only. This realization then helps one look at is-ness without getting fixated on any one thing as absolute..

      • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 5:17 PM

        And conversely, recognizing the Groundhog Day type cartoon loop that seems to represent the cycle of everything helps to accept what one is seeing as real even when one might wish for a different reality. Existence cycles and these cycles are similar if not identical. The process of recursion makes us think change is not occurring and that man cannot learn because he repeats his catastrophic mistakes. However, the self-similarity as opposed to being identical events helps us see that indeed there is movement away and vectors away from the way things are and thus there is evolution. Our physical world and our temporal life does change, and change toward every possibility. Sort of refreshing to acknowledge that and non-worrisome at the same time.

        • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 6:03 PM

          Yup! It takes the worry away.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 6:26 PM

          For a human like me, the world around me is such a perfect mix of mystery and knowledge – exquisite.

        • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 7:21 PM

          This universe to me is like the Wonderland of Alice.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 7:45 PM

          Yes.

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 7:31 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    MASTER: “You see how many opinions there are about God. Each opinion is a path. There are innumerable opinions and innumerable paths leading to God.”

    BHAVANATH: “Then what should we do?”

    MASTER: “You must stick to one path with all your strength. A man can reach the roof of a house by stone stairs or a ladder or a rope-ladder or a rope or even by a bamboo pole. But he cannot reach the roof if he sets foot now on one and now on another. He should firmly follow one path. Likewise, in order to realize God a man must follow one path with all his strength.

    “But you must regard other views as so many paths leading to God. You should not feel that your path is the only right path and that other paths are wrong. You mustn’t bear malice toward others.”

    .

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 7:43 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    MASTER (to Vijay, with a smile): “I was told that you had put up a ‘signboard’ here that people belonging to other faiths are not allowed to come in. Narendra, too, said to me: ‘You shouldn’t go to the Brahmo Samaj. You had better visit Shivanath’s house.’

    “But I say that we are all calling on the same God. Jealousy and malice need not be. Some say that God is formless,and some that God has form. I say, let one man meditate on God with form if he believes in form, and let another meditate on the formless Deity if he does not believe in form. What I mean is that dogmatism is not good. It is not good to feel that my religion alone is true and other religions are false. The correct attitude is this: My religion is right, but I do not know whether other religions are right or wrong, true or false. I say this because one cannot know the true nature of God unless one realizes Him. Kabir used to say: ‘God with form is my Mother, the Formless is my Father. Which shall I blame? Which shall I praise? The two pans of the scales are equally heavy.’

    “Hindus, Mussalmans, Christians, Saktas, Saivas, Vaishnavas, the Brahmajnanis of the time of the rishis, and you, the Brahmajnanis of modern times, all seek the same object. A mother prepares dishes to suit the stomachs of her children. Suppose a mother has five children and a fish is bought for the family. She doesn’t cook pilau or kalia for all of them. All have not the same power of digestion; so she prepares a simple stew for some. But she loves all her children equally.

    “Do you know my attitude? I love all the preparations of fish. I have a womanly nature (all laugh). I feel myself at home with every dish-fried fish, fish cooked with turmeric powder, pickled fish. And further, I equally relish rich preparations like fish-head, kalia, and pilau. (all laugh)

    “Do you know what the truth is? God has made different religions to suit different aspirants, times, and countries. All doctrines are only so many paths; but a path is by no means God Himself. Indeed, one can reach God if one follows any of the paths with whole-hearted devotion. Suppose there are errors in the religion that one has accepted; if one is sincere and earnest, then God Himself will correct those errors. Suppose a man has set out with a sincere desire to visit Jagannath at Puri and by mistake has gone north instead of south; then certainly someone meeting him on the way will tell him: ‘My good fellow, don’t go that way. Go to the south.’ And the man will reach Jagannath sooner or later.

    “If there are errors in other religions, that is none of our business. God, to whom the world belongs, takes care of that. Our duty is somehow to visit Jagannath. (To the Brahmos) The view you hold is good indeed. You describe God as formless. That is fine. One may eat a cake with icing, either straight or sidewise. It will taste sweet either way.

    “But dogmatism is not good. You have no doubt heard the story of the chameleon. A man entered a wood and saw a chameleon on a tree. He reported to his friends, ‘I have seen a red lizard.’ He was firmly convinced that it was nothing but red. Another person, after visiting the tree, said, ‘I have seen a green lizard.’ He was firmly convinced that it was nothing but green. But the man who lived under the tree said: ‘What both of you have said is true. But the fact is that the creature is sometimes red, sometimes green, sometimes yellow, and sometimes has no colour at all.’”

    .

    • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 1:45 PM

      “I say this because one cannot know the true nature of God unless one realizes Him. Kabir used to say: ‘God with form is my Mother, the Formless is my Father. Which shall I blame? Which shall I praise? The two pans of the scales are equally heavy.’”

      Maybe I will become a Hindu next, but only if I can learn and use the cool face paint.

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 7:49 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    MASTER (to Vijay, smiling): “I understand that they have been finding fault with you for mixing with those who believe in God with form. Is that true? He who is a devotee of God must have an understanding that cannot be shaken under any conditions. He must be like the anvil in a blacksmith’s shop. It is constantly being struck by the hammer; still it is unshaken. Bad people may abuse you very much and speak ill of you; but you must bear with them all if you sincerely seek God. Isn’t it possible to think of God in the midst of the wicked? Just think of the rishis of ancient times. They used to meditate on God in the forest, surrounded on all sides by tigers, bears, and other ferocious beasts. Wicked men have the nature of tigers and bears. They will pursue you to do you an injury.

    “One must be careful about these few things. First, an influential man who has much money and many men under his control. He can injure you if he wants; you must be careful while talking to him; perhaps you may have to approve what he says. Second, a dog. When it chases you or barks at you, you must stand still, talk to it gently, and pacify it. Third, a bull. If it runs after you with lowered horns, you must calm it with a gentle voice. Fourth, a drunkard. If you arouse his anger, he will abuse you, naming fourteen generations of your family. You should say to him: ‘Hello uncle! How are you?’ Then he will be mightily pleased and sit by you and smoke.

    “In the presence of a wicked person I become alert. If such a man asks me whether I have a pipe for smoking, I say, ‘Yes, I have.’ Some people have the nature of a snake: they will bite you without warning. You have to discriminate a great deal in order to avoid the bite; otherwise your passion will be stirred up to such an extent that you will feel like doing injury in return. The companionship of a holy man is greatly needed now and then. It enables one to discriminate between the Real and the unreal.”

    .

    • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 1:46 PM

      And thus we practice mindfulness.

      • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 4:08 PM

        When is one is being mindful, one does not have to worry about whether one is evaluating or not, because one is always “evaluating” in terms of seeing what is there. One should only be concerned about how correct that evaluation is. The less filters are there, the less incorrect one’s evaluation would be.
        .

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 10:39 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    SUB-JUDGE: “Sir, I am a sinner. How can I say that God dwells in me?”

    MASTER: “That’s the one trouble with you Brahmos. With you it is always sin and sin! That’s the Christian view, isn’t it? Once a man gave me a Bible.A part of it was read to me, and it was full of that one thing – sin and sin! One must have such faith that one can say: ‘I have uttered the name of God; I have repeated the name of Rāma or Hari. How can I be a sinner?’ One must have faith in the glory of God’s name.”

    .

    • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 1:37 PM

      This was my advice to a conservative Christian family who was worried about the loss of their daughter to Scientology Sea Org. “This is a test of your faith, use it and rejoice.”

      • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 3:23 PM

        Yes, Bible tends to be pretty negative about human nature, and so does Scientology. You get what you put your attention on.

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 10:44 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    MANILAL: “And what about hathayoga?”

    MASTER: “The hathayogis identify themselves with their bodies. They practise internal washing and similar disciplines, and devote themselves only to the care of the body. Their ideal is to increase longevity. They serve the body day and night. That is not good.

    .

    • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 1:49 PM

      My feeling is this statement by SRI RAMAKRISHNA is a mistake and inconsistent with the earlier text admonishing one to follow their own path be it formed or formless.

      • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 1:57 PM

        He was talking about form and formless with respect to the consideration of the ultimate reality.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 2:07 PM

          Ah, well then the language lets us down. There is only language for form and then there is language for the form that there may be no form, or as you say the conjecture which is “a placeholder.” Quite simple really. Our existence no longer seems to me any kind of paradox but rather a tautology. Neti neti takes us in the opposite direction of tautology, it seems. These are both useful to me.

          Seeing things as they really are implies an acquiescence to accept what is really there rather than what one desires, assumes to be there.

        • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 4:11 PM

          In my view, neither form (physicality) and nor formlessness (spirituality) can exist without the other.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 5:22 PM

          “In my view, neither form (physicality) and nor formlessness (spirituality) can exist without the other.”

          As usual, I now express my opinion that spirituality has form, even if only mental forms. In your context, yes, we have both firm and soft forms, but in a more universe swallowing way, all is form., though I understand your points.

        • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 8:33 PM

          What form does Scientology Static have in your mind?

        • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 10:04 PM

          Nothing is without form.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 10:06 PM

          We do have the word nothing and it is a conjecture, a knowledge a priori and not a posteriori.

        • vinaire  On August 9, 2014 at 3:38 AM

          Static is not an absence of awareness.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 9, 2014 at 9:04 AM

          Static as in 0 Kelvin is not an absence of awareness? In this universe, and that is all I know about, I am going to hazard a guess and say that I think it is. There may be beings or beingnesses as analogous to our own beyond what we know, but I do not know about these.

          The static of Hubbard was the individual essence of an individual, I think that individual awareness as we know it is quite fragile and only survives in the temperate zones.

        • vinaire  On August 9, 2014 at 10:01 AM

          0 Kelvin is a theoretical limit of no motion. It has never been achieved. It is not achievable either as long as there is substance. So, complete absence of motion does not exist in this universe. Complete absence of relative motion would also mean absence of awareness because awareness exists only when there is relative motion.

          Hubbard’s idea of Static is theoretical and pulled out of thin air, because the true absolute Static would be devoid of not only motion, but also of any potential of motion or ability.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 9, 2014 at 10:31 AM

          So no awareness, right?

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 11:25 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    MASTER: “You ask me why you don’t feel stern renunciation. There is a reason for it. You have desires and tendencies within you. The same is true of Hazra. In our part of the country I have seen peasants bringing water into their paddy-fields. The fields have low ridges on all sides to prevent the water from leaking out; but these are made of mud and often have holes here and there. The peasants work themselves to death to bring the water, which, however, leaks out through the holes. Desires are the holes. You practise japa and austerities, no doubt, but they all leak out through the holes of your desires…”

    .

    • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 1:56 PM

      “Desires are the holes. You practise japa and austerities, no doubt, but they all leak out through the holes of your desires…””

      Maybe but I do not think so. For me, to use this analogy of irrigation canals, mindfulness is the paving within the canal which preserves the water without caving into the dirt banks. The holes seem to be lack of mindfulness. Mindfulness helps us not fight our desires but acknowledge them, embrace them, smile at them without being in conflict with them. Conflict is the root of suffering. A man should first become at peace with himself, then he will be at peace with the world. All the practices may melt away leaving shining mindfulness in its place.

      • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 1:59 PM

        That is excellent, Chris. You are now becoming mindful.

  • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 11:28 AM

    From THE GOSPEL OF SRI RAMAKRISHNA:

    MASTER: “You see, in big grain stores the merchants keep rice in great heaps that touch the ceiling. Beside them there are heaps of lentils. To protect the grain from the mice, the merchants leave trays of puffed rice and sweetened rice near it. The mice like the smell and the sweet taste of these and so stayaround the trays. They don’t find the big heaps of grain. Similarly, men are deluded by ‘woman and gold’; they do not know where God is.”

    .

    • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 2:00 PM

      I’m not sure from this text if SRI RAMAKRISHNA is recommending austerity or ascetism, but harsh or severe practices can possibly replace other fleshly desires in simply another vector. One should live a full, rich, and vigorous life and practice mindfulness; seeing all, knowing all, embracing all. Mirrors are man’s metaphor for existence.

      • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 4:38 PM

        All he is saying is that don’t get distracted by lust and greed.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 5:31 PM

          But yes, mindfulness is the undercut to balance. One cannot get hung up on things being a certain way, paths being a certain way, rules being a certain way. This leads to unbalance through lack of mindfulness.

        • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 7:13 PM

          That is how I see it.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 7:42 PM

          I do not understand your meaning. Is there an inconsistency in my words?

        • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 7:54 PM

          “That is how I see it” simply means that I agree with you.

        • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 7:57 PM

          Oh, my bad. LOL!

  • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 5:25 PM

    All he is saying is that don’t get distracted by lust and greed.

    Interesting to consider how much distraction is “distracted.” No attachments = no distractions. Does this consideration bring us back around to the subject of balance? I think so.

    • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 7:12 PM

      Anything that distracts one from Mindfulness is the distraction that needs to be addressed immediately.

      • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 7:38 PM

        Human existence is attachment. That’s an example of seeing things as they are and not only as they seem to be. But existence is not only suffering but also joy as well. Balance brings an equilibrium to life and makes the trip sustainable. Possibly we could say that unbalanced attachments bring about the most distractions.

        • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 8:17 PM

          Mindfulness sees suffering as suffering and joy as joy without any filters.

  • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 5:40 PM

    I went to “meet the teacher” yesterday afternoon at my youngest son’s school. On her wall were a reasonable set rules for conduct but at the top was written in big letters, “The Measure of One’s Integrity Is to Obey Even When One Disagrees.” Surrounding this were many conditioning tools of patriotism, Pledge of Allegiance, etc., I was surprised to read something so illogical pasted at the top of that list of rules. My children are trained to follow rules and keep the peace, to cooperate, but to always think their own thoughts and to be on guard for conditioning language, even when that conditioning is from myself.

    I am for an orderly classroom, etc., but I plan to develop some rapport with my son’s teacher and then bring up this false, blatantly false premise.

    • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 7:19 PM

      My father taught me to listen to everyone but to do what i think is right. I have done that naturally all my life. I did that even when I was in Sea Org. I was ultimately deemed unfit for Sea Org because I could not be conditioned.

      Your son’s teacher simply does not know any better and that is not her fault. She needs to be somehow introduced to mindfulness.

      • Chris Thompson  On August 8, 2014 at 7:44 PM

        “Your son’s teacher simply does not know any better and that is not her fault. She needs to be somehow introduced to mindfulness.”

        I like your idea better. I was going to bridge the subject socially and then not overwhelm her but nudge her to understand that I was in disagreement and eventually let her know not to teach my son in that way. Your idea is better, but I stick at how to begin.

        • vinaire  On August 8, 2014 at 8:14 PM

          Make a copy of 12-aspects of Mindfulness and show her how the slogan on the wall seems to disagree with it. Ask her rationale behind what she has put on the wall.

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