SCOPE:
To investigate the interface between physics and metaphysics
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REFERENCES:
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OBSERVATIONS:
[OK, I am starting all over again using Buddha’s principle of seeing things as they are. I decided to define the scope of Physics and Metaphysics at the outset. I see Metaphysics much broader in scope and Physics to be part of that scope. Physics deals with manifestations. Metaphysics must deal with perception because there is nothing else there. I have been reading Aristotle. Metaphysics did not start out as the subject of perception, but it should have. That would have greatly simplified the subject of philosophy.]
ONE: There is looking and perceiving.
TWO: There is something to be looked at and perceived.
THREE: Thus there is manifestation and perception.
FOUR: Physics is a study of manifestation.
FIVE: Metaphysics is a study of perception.
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PERCEPTION:
[It is PERCEPTION that gives rise to the ideas of SELF, SPACE and all the MANIFESTATIONS around us. Our perception is the starting point of it all. Later we would be investigating what perception is. But first I want to establish the starting point of this investigation.]
SIX: MANIFESTATION is thought to be there. It is what is perceived.
SEVEN: Perception is thought to involve a “perception point”. Thus there is the consideration of SELF.
EIGHT: Self is thought to be separate from manifestation. Thus there is the consideration of SPACE.
NINE: Perception, primarily, is thought to involve the considerations of MANIFESTATION, SELF, and SPACE.
TEN: Perception appears to be THOUGHT considering itself.
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EXISTENCE:
[Philosophy still hasn’t sorted out fully what EXISTENCE is. There are many different views about it. In other words, different philosophers mentally perceive existence differently. It all boils down to perception. The problem of existence sorts out nicely when we define it in terms of perception.]
ELEVEN: Manifestations, self, and space are thought to be present. Thus, there is the consideration of EXISTENCE.
TWELVE: Manifestation is what is perceived. Self is what perceives. Space makes perception possible.
THIRTEEN: That this is so is a consideration.
FOURTEEN: Existence is the sum total of considerations perceived.
FIFTEEN: Existence is relative and not absolute.
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CRITERION OF INVESTIGATION:
[It is important to establish the first principle from the outset. It then acts as the criterion for rest of the investigation. Here we are using PERCEPTION as the first principle and the criterion. One may figure-figure whatever one wants, but unless it is there to be perceived, it would not meet the criterion of this investigation.]
SIXTEEN: Aristotle called the subjects of metaphysics “first philosophy”. He called the study of nature, or physics, “second philosophy”. This is consistent with the fact that study of manifestation (second philosophy) is intrinsic to the study of perception (first philosophy).
SEVENTEEN: The implication from Aristotle is that the primary task of philosophy is to search for first principles. Aristotle seems to describe the first principle as “the first basis from which a thing is known.”
EIGHTEEN: By definition, a first principle would be a basic, foundational proposition or assumption that cannot be deduced from any other proposition or assumption.
NINETEEN: In this investigation we start with the first principle of PERCEPTION OF MANIFESTATION. It is something that is universally there. It spurs thinking and further looking.
TWENTY: Hence the criterion used in this investigation would be the determination of those thoughts and observations that are consistent with ‘PERCEPTION OF MANIFESTATION’. These things can be found when actually looked for.
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FIRST CAUSE:
[“First Cause” is a misnomer. It has nothing to do with the notion of “cause and effect”. “Cause and effect” denote a certain association between two events where the second event is looked upon as the outcome of the first event. “First Cause,” on the other hand, is the property, which makes a manifestation simply appear without association with anything else. It is interesting to observe that the property of “first cause” may be applied to all manifestations before applying the association of “cause and effect.”]
TWENTY-ONE: We cut a tree; it falls. We strike a match; it lights up. Thus, we have a phenomenon that is a direct consequence of another phenomenon. This makes us believe that all phenomena are caused. We, thus, assume that a manifestation must be a consequence of another manifestation. This belief leads to an infinite causal series.
TWENTY-TWO: To resolve this inconsistency, we assume a First Cause that is not itself caused. But this makes the First Cause different from the way all other causes are understood. It allows the possibility that a manifestation may simply appear.
TWENTY-THREE: All manifestations simply appear as we perceive them. They disappear as we stop perceiving them. Thus, we may consider “First Cause” to be the property of all manifestations.
TWENTY-FOUR: The notions of CAUSE and EFFECT seem to indicate an association between two manifestations, which otherwise simply appear and disappear as we perceive or not perceive them.
TWENTY-FIVE: Hence, consistency with perception tells us that “First Cause” is a property that applies to all manifestations. On the other hand, “cause and effect” is a special sequence observed between two manifestations.
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GOD:
[God cannot be a manifestation itself that can be perceived, and at the same time be the source of all other manifestations. That is highly inconsistent because it makes it possible for any manifestation to be considered God. Thus, if there is a God, then it can’t be manifested. It would be beyond perception. It would be part of speculation only.]
TWENTY-SIX: When God is viewed as a Being with the properties of holiness, justice, sovereignty, omnipotence, omniscience, benevolence, omnipresence, and immortality it qualifies as a manifestation. The property of “First Cause” applies to God just as it applies to any other manifestation.
TWENTY-SEVEN: The implication of Gödel’s incompleteness theorems is that no system can be described completely by using an aspect of that system for reference.
TWENTY-EIGHT: Therefore, God, viewed as a manifestation, cannot completely describe the presence of all other manifestations
TWENTY-NINE: Thus, God must be something that is beyond manifestation. It may be looked upon as the background against which manifestation, and even perception, appears.
THIRTY: Thus, God is THAT, which cannot be conceived or perceived. It is beyond desire, expectation and speculation.
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CONSIDERATIONS AND KNOWLEDGE:
[The considerations form themselves into space. Disturbances in space travel as radiation. Radiation condenses as matter. The primary knowledge is perception of considerations, from which come memory, experience, knowledge, information, hypotheses, theories, principles, axioms, etc.]
THIRTY-ONE: Space separates manifestation from perception-point. Separation generates desire to know. Desire to know generates expectation. Expectation generates speculation. Speculation generates considerations.
THIRTY-TWO: Considerations (thoughts, ideas, assumptions, expectations, suppositions, conjectures, speculations, etc.) form the fabric of the mental space. Disturbance traveling through this fabric is what forms radiation. This radiation condenses and becomes fixed as matter.
THIRTY-THREE: The perception of these considerations forms the basis of knowledge. Knowledge gradually becomes more structured as it condenses into information, hypotheses, theories, principles and axioms.
THIRTY-FOUR: All considerations are relative and so is knowledge.
THIRTY-FIVE: There is no absolute consideration. There is no absolute knowledge.
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NAME AND FORM:
[Name and form (nama-rupa in Sanskrit) is the crystallization of thoughts, at which point persistence enters into the picture. Name and form become the points of reference because they are persisting, even if for a fleeting moment. They can now interact and combine into more complex forms with new names.]
THIRTY-SIX: Considerations interact with each other. For such interaction to take place, there must be persistence.
THIRTY-SEVEN: For considerations to persist they must acquire some form. A unique consideration will have a unique form or ‘name’.
THIRTY- EIGHT: The considerations, thus, interact and combine into more complex forms with new names.
THIRTY-NINE: When there are names and forms there are also considerations.
FORTY: “God,” “Prime Mover Unmoved” “Uncaused Cause,” “Supreme Being,” “Unconditioned Being,” etc. are all considerations.
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[Further development of this project is in progress…]
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SELF:
[As considerations acquire name and form they become fixed. From this come transformations, such as, symbols, pictures, feelings, emotions, impulses, etc. The perception point appears to be the center of these considerations analogous to the “center of mass” in Physics. This is SELF. Considerations give rise to judgments that seem to be coming from self.]
FORTY-ONE: As considerations acquire name and form they develop a structure and become relatively rigid or fixed.
FORTY-TWO: From this structure of considerations come transformations, such as, symbols, pictures, feelings, emotions, impulses, etc. Thus come about means for communication, such as, language.
FORTY-THREE: As these considerations become relatively rigid or fixed, the perception point appears to be the center of these considerations analogous to the “center of mass” in Physics. This is SELF.
FORTY-FOUR: The perception gets filtered through the structure of considerations that make up the SELF, before it reaches the perception point.
FORTY-FIVE: The filtered perception gives rise to judgments that seem to be coming from SELF. This determines the view of existence, the Universe and also the view of self.
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Comments
These propositions are continually being added to.
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The concept of self has been eluding me for some time. The following appears to be counter-intuitive, but this is the best intuition I seem to have about self.
FORTY-ONE: Manifestation is the same as its perceptibility, and it is its own perception point.
FORTY-TWO: Perceptibility is altered with the separation of perception point from the manifestation.
FORTY-THREE: With this separation LOOKING comes into play and so does SELF.
FORTY-FOUR: Self gathers unto itself other considerations over time.
FORTY-FIVE: Self then acts as the primary filter to looking.
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So there is no disappearance of considerations as the inconsistencies in them are “leveled.” Rather the ballooning sphere of considerations grows. The disharmony lessens but the amplitude if you will increases. This actually makes sense to me. Growth in harmony and growth in knowledge.
Yes, as long as there is separation and SELF, it seems.
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I don’t understand your reply. Please write more.
(Consideration of manifestation) + (Consideration of separation from manifestation) = (Creation of perception-point and perception).
Perception-point + perception of separation = self
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Now we have found our “dark matter.” LOL
This is for me a completely new direction. I am looking for some inconsistency but the only thing I am seeing is a leveling of the disharmony that I feel when this contrary data bumps into the old concept of dissolving and disappearing inconsistencies.
I think you have really brought something out this time Vin. This physics is new to me but seems consistent with what little I already understand.
We have kept looking.
We have kept fully viewing.
We can keep in “speaking out loud” as a device to enable the beginner to look at and say what he sees in his mind.
I need some help with forty-three. This reads like you are proposing an “exteriorization” of a kind, which you haven’t previously held as valid.
This is reverse engineering of as-isness.
Thus, looking comes into play.
Thus, self is generated.
This is not separation of self from the body.
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Body comes at FORTY-FOUR.
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Yes, but as-is is not what I thought. The universe is not shrinking. What will we do with that? How will it fit?
Looking provides creation and tuning. What is reduced is not MEST but NOISE. What occurs is more MEST. Can this be true?
(1) Separation creates self.
(2) Self creates considerations
(3) Considerations evolve into MEST
It is expansion.
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Potato-Potahto. What do you say is separating? Self is identification with universe. We do not need body to have this identification.
Perception-point is separating from manifestation and turning into self. Self may do whatever after that.
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Additions for today:
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FORTY-SIX: Pure objectivity is possible only with the elimination of self.
FORTY-SEVEN: With self eliminated perceptibility remains but no self-consciousness.
FORTY-EIGHT: Pure objectivity would be seeing without viewpoint. It would be seeing something for what it is.
FORTY-NINE: Self and other considerations that are added to ‘what-is’ act as “filters.”
FIFTY: Objectivity is characterized by absence of filters.
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Sorry, I liked your first 46. Thought it was brilliant.
Are you talking about
FORTY-SIX: Pure objectivity is possible only with the elimination of self.
or
FORTY-SIX: There seems to be a level of knowledge before SELF comes into being.
I would rather use in the main post whatever communicates better.
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FORTY-SIX: There seems to be a level of knowledge before SELF comes into being.
I am not saying this is clear. I needs 46 sub 46es. 😉 But it is right.
I hope the recent revisions make it clearer.
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Hi Vinaire,
What is the latest revision on 46?
Thank you,
Nia
I deep-sixed 46 and whatever followed that. I have now rewritten the last three sections from 31 to 45.
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I have to run to a meeting but this has been just great this morning. Thanks.
So cool. I love reading you and Chris! So inspiring!!
Jump into the discussion, please. 🙂
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Yes please Brian! Jump in! Vinaire is on some kind of 5 hour energy drink or something and his output recently has been enormous. The only thing is that his new job of working part time is cutting into his blogging time and we may have to have him quit the job!
Space is a filter.
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Wow! So obvious. The original one? Yet for all the time I’ve spent on space that hadn’t crossed my mind in just that way. Again, more so than a specific example, this feels like a harmony can occur from this… I will let you know what pops up.
Another way to write it is that I hadn’t looked at the characteristics of space as mental filters.
This reveals; exploits some mental “partitioning” that I do. For instance, I look at my world in terms of my own perception of it. I am flipping between the subjective and objective, back and forth and having a separation there. There is a further cognition in that for me and I think it exemplifies your comment about space as a filter.
Space hides. Anything beyond which one cannot seem to look is fixating one’s attention.
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Just so. That is the nature of Nature. Time and space are welded. For me, my “time track” is also a way to hide; a way to not be present in the present.
Yes, and thus we have exploration — every type of exploration.
I am starting from scratch again.
ONE: There is looking and perceiving.
TWO: There is something to be looked at and perceived.
THREE: Thus there is manifestation and perception.
FOUR: There may be something “fundamental” underlying manifestation and perception.
FIVE: That “fundamental” is neither manifested nor is perceivable. It may only be speculated upon.
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Great! Let’s get it on!
I am no longer looking at what is “beyond” physics. I am going back to Aristotle’s thoughts in metaphysics.
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I am with you. You know, if the TOE doesn’t pan out, we could still take our notes on the road as a stand-up comedy team . . . 🙂 hmmmm
That may be more like it!
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SIX: With the appearance of manifestation there is speculation of change in the “fundamental”.
SEVEN: Thus comes about the consideration of CHANGE.
EIGHT: With the appearance of perception there is speculation of a perception point separate from the manifestation.
NINE: Thus comes about. the consideration of SEPARATION.
TEN: And thus comes about the consideration of SELF.
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ELEVEN: Physics is a study of manifestation and perception.
TWELVE: Metaphysics is a speculation on what is beyond manifestation and perception.
THIRTEEN: Knowledge consists of physics and metaphysics.
FOURTEEN: Knowledge of physics is the knowledge of existence.
FIFTEEN: Knowledge of metaphysics is the knowledge of what could exist.
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Vin: “FIVE: That “fundamental” is neither manifested nor is perceivable. It may only be speculated upon.”
Chris: You can speculate, no problem; However, that “fundamental” is not axiomatic. Either we should look at why you speculate there is nothing physical there or else I would like you to explain very simply to me why there is fundamentally something not physical underpinning the physical.
I got your point. I have taken it out of the line up for now.
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Perhaps you are looking at this all backwards. LOL
There is no “physical” anything. The physical is YOUR speculation (or illusion) and YOU are not physical 🙂
Welcome to your dream
Brian, I was just reviewing a few notes and spotted your comment here – didn’t mean to ignore it in December!
Speaking for myself, I acknowledge your idea that trying to draw a hard line between fantasy and reality is difficult to do. If you look very closely, then it becomes even more difficult to do.
I find myself working with whatever I’ve got at the moment and watching for paradoxes as I don’t believe in their validity and they routinely point toward the telling inconsistency that helps me focus a new understanding of some kind.
The way you turned around the idea of physical and illusion, looking for a counterintuitive result is one of my favorite devices. I get a lot of mileage out of this counterintuitive method of solving problems.
Back to you.
Vin: “”TWELVE: Metaphysics is a speculation on what is beyond manifestation and perception.
Chris: The first speculation of metaphysics is that there is something beyond speculation.
TWELVE seems to be incorrect (see METAPHYSICS in Wikipedia) so I have taken it out.
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It is a beautiful speculation of mankind that there is something beyond beyond. I wonder why we do this.
Yes, that is a good question. What is unknown has always attracted attention.
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Vin: “THIRTEEN: Knowledge consists of physics and metaphysics.”
Chris says: ” ‘Metaphysics’ reduces to physics through looking.” I don’t think there is a reduction of physics. I think there is only a ballooning sphere of considerations.
That is a good observation. 🙂
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Vinaire: “FIFTEEN: Knowledge of metaphysics is the knowledge of what could exist.”
Chris says: This is an interesting look and for me a new way of looking at the subject and definition of metaphysics. Therefore mental ideas; manifestations which haven’t yet reached a macro-size are metaphysics? We want to use metaphysics this way? Then as we reduce metaphysics; or should I say as we condense and expand! metaphysics, then we get physics? I can work with this and it is also counterintuitive to the status quo.
This may be a speculation on my part. I am going to study METAPHYSICS from Wikipedia.
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