Please see A Course on Hubbard’s Factors
Reference: Scientology
I humbly submit my review and revision of “The Factors” of Scientology by L. Ron Hubbard, which appear in the book Scientology 8-8008.
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THE FACTORS
FACTOR # 1: Before the beginning was a Cause and the entire purpose of the Cause was the creation of effect.
This Factor anchors the whole existence on an absolute Cause. This is similar to the idea of God in the Abrahamic religions. However, this is inconsistent with the Vedas and Buddhism, which are the earliest ancestors of Scientology according to Hubbard.
The Vedas inquire about the basis of universe by the keynote of Neti-neti (neither this, nor that). Buddhism declares.
“The Absolute Truth is that there is nothing absolute in the world, that everything is relative, conditioned and impermanent, and that there is no unchanging, everlasting, absolute substance like Self, Soul, or Ātman within or without.”
In other words, there are no absolute certainties as regards the basis of this universe. So we start with the unbiased basis of emptiness. Please see Emptiness.
Thus, this Factor is inconsistent with Vedas and Buddhism when it posits the basis of this universe in absolute certain terms.
Mindfulness says,
FACTOR # 1 (revised): The universe is simply there. Its beginning, or basis, cannot be ascertained with certainty. So we start with the unbiased basis of emptiness.
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FACTOR # 2: In the beginning and forever is the decision and the decision is TO BE.
The universe is there. It is being (existing). We may only speculate about its beginning. But about the beginning of things within this universe we may say the following:
(1) The universe is a continuum of substance. Whatever appears within the universe is relative, conditioned and impermanent.
(2) The things in the universe may evolve in different forms; but there is consistency to them.
(3) The things in the universe may become more complex or less; but there is harmony to them.
(4) The things in the universe may become more intense or less; but there is continuity to them.
Mindfulness says,
FACTOR # 2 (revised): The universe is always changing but it is consistent, harmonious and continuous in its beingness.
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FACTOR # 3: The first action of beingness is to assume a viewpoint.
The continuity, harmony and consistency of the universe manifest in the form of a universal viewpoint. The universal viewpoint is not bound or limited in any way and it can see things as they are. A viewpoint becomes subjective to the degree it is less than universal.
FACTOR # 3 (revised): The universal viewpoint is characterized by seeing things as they are. This is the definition of objectivity.
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FACTOR # 4: The second action of beingness is to extend from the viewpoint, points to view, which are dimension points.
The beingness is all that there is to view. It spreads out into infinity of dimensions, where each dimension comprises of infinity of points to view.
FACTOR # 4 (revised): The universal beingness offers infinity of dimensions to view.
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FACTOR # 5: Thus there is space created, for the definition of space is: viewpoint of dimension. And the purpose of a dimension point is space and a point of view.
The universe is infinite in its dimensions, and thus provides the space and all that is within it. The universal beingness is thus aware of itself.
FACTOR # 5 (revised): The dimensions provide the space in which to view the dimension points.
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FACTOR # 6: The action of a dimension point is reaching and withdrawing.
The dimension points go through a cycle of consideration when attention is placed on them. In other words, the dimension points come in and go out of view.
FACTOR # 6 (revised): The dimension points come in and go out of view. Thus there is consideration.
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FACTOR # 7: And from the viewpoint to the dimension points there are connection and interchange. Thus new dimension points are made. Thus there is communication.
The viewpoint can recognize the anomalies of inconsistency, disharmony or discontinuity among the dimension points, and straightens them out. Thus realizations come about. So, there is communication because the purpose of communication is to establish understanding through consistency, harmony and continuity.
FACTOR # 7 (revised): The consideration resolves inconsistency, disharmony and discontinuity among dimension points. Thus missing connections are discovered. Thus there is communication.
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FACTOR # 8: And thus there is light.
Communication is the means for pereiving what is there and aligning it with knowledge existing in the mind to gain understanding.
FACTOR # 8 (revised): And thus there is perception, understanding, and enlightenment.
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FACTOR # 9: And thus there is energy.
Perception and understanding is followed by purposeful activity to bring about greater consistency, harmony and continuity.
FACTOR # 9 (revised): And thus there is purposeful activity.
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FACTOR # 10: And thus there is life.
With purposeful activity there comes about the evolution of life in the universe.
FACTOR # 10 (revised): And thus life evolves.
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FACTOR # 11: But there are other viewpoints and these viewpoints out-thrust points to view. And there comes about an interchange amongst viewpoints; but the interchange is never otherwise than in terms of exchanging dimension points.
There is only one universally objective viewpoint. Therefore, as the viewpoint narrows from universality it breaks into multiple viewpoints. The multiple viewpoints are subjective and hold different views of dimension points. Thus come about discontinuity, disharmony and inconsistency.
FACTOR # 11 (revised): There is only one universal and objective viewpoint. A departure from universality generates multiplicity of viewpoints that are subjective in different ways. Thus comes about interchange of opinions.
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FACTOR # 12: The dimension point can be moved by the viewpoint, for the viewpoint, in addition to creative ability and consideration, possesses volition and potential independence of action; and the viewpoint, viewing dimension points, can change in relation to its own or other dimension points or viewpoints. Thus comes about all the fundamentals there are to motion.
The integrity of the viewpoint is lost when it becomes narrow and subjective and cannot view the facts and accuracy of the dimension points. The viewpoint becomes blind to the discontinuities, disharmonies and inconsistencies that it is mired into.
To restore its integrity a viewpoint must broaden its context and confront the discontinuities, disharmonies and inconsistencies that now come to view. Exteriorization of the viewpoint depends on the resolution of these anomalies. Scientology talks about agreement. But agreements on narrow views keep the viewpoints interiorized.
FACTOR # 12 (revised): Creative ability, consideration, volition and potential independence of action underlie the changes in viewpoint and dimension points. The criteria they must adhere to is continuity, harmony and consistency. Thus comes about all the fundamentals there are to motion.
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FACTOR # 13: The dimension points are each and every one, whether large or small, solid. And they are solid solely because the viewpoints say they are solid.
Reality improves as discontinuities, disharmonies and inconsistencies are found and resolved. Life becomes less confusing and more stable. Things in life start to become more useful and they are applied again and again. They start to become more real and solid. Even at physical level solidity comes from quantization as frequency increases. Thus, dimension points become solid to the degree there is continuity, harmony and consistency among them.
FACTOR # 13 (revised): The dimension points are each and every one, whether large or small, real. And they are real to the degree they are continuous, harmonious and consistent.
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FACTOR #14: Many dimension points combine into larger gases, fluids or solids. Thus there is matter. But the most valued point is admiration, and admiration is so strong its absence alone permits persistence.
The dimension points are both physical and metaphysical. The physical dimension points appear as the substance formed of electromagnetic field and matter. The metaphysical dimension points appear as the qualities and attributes. These dimension points vary from simple to complex, abstract to concrete. Their beauty lies in their continuity, harmony and consistency that lead to complete understanding.
Admiration of dimension point means complete recognition of their beauty as described above. Absence of such admiration means that the dimension points are not recognized for what they are. Such misconception leads to the persistence of unresolved opinions, assumptions, fixed ideas, and speculations. The universe is neither persisting nor not-persisting. Only those things persist that are not fully resolved.
FACTOR #14 (revised): The dimension points combine to generate more complex forms. But these forms are pure to the degree they are viewed as they are. This is admiration. Lack of admiration results in persistence of impurity.
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FACTOR #15: The dimension point can be different from other dimension points and thus can possess an individual quality. And many dimension points can possess a similar quality, and others can possess a similar quality unto themselves. Thus comes about the quality of classes of matter.
The dimension points are infinitely varied with unique individual qualities. There are similarities and differences among them. Thus there are classes of matter in terms of qualities, such as, density, hardness, flammability, etc., and classes of abstractions, such as, principles, rules, laws, etc.
FACTOR #15 (revised): The dimension points are different because of their unique qualities, while they have many similarities. Thus comes about the quality of classes of matter.
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FACTOR # 16: The viewpoint can combine dimension points into forms and the forms can be simple or complex and can be at different distances from the viewpoints and so there can be combinations of form. And the forms are capable of motion and the viewpoints are capable of motion and so there can be motion of forms.
Simple dimension points combine by free association to form more complex dimension points under the criteria of continuity, harmony and consistency. These dimension points differ in their dimensions of distances, durations, motions, etc. Thus evolution comes about in terms of various forms and capability of self-animation. Here we have the beginning of life.
FACTOR # 16 (revised): The dimension points combine into forms that are capable of motion, and so there is motion among parts of complex forms. Thus comes about self-animation.
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FACTOR # 17: And the opinion of the viewpoint regulates the consideration of the forms, their stillness or their motion, and these considerations consist of assignment of beauty or ugliness to the forms and these considerations alone are art.
Thus, evolution takes place from inanimate minerals to active plant life to animated animal life. The physical form and metaphysical essence develops accordingly and it reaches its pinnacle in the human identity. Art lies in the stillness or motion of these forms in infinite ways. It is the continuity and harmony of the motion involved that determines the beauty of forms.
FACTOR # 17 (revised): The forms evolve from inanimate minerals to growing plants to animated animals. Beauty lies in the continuity, harmony and consistency of the stillness and motion of these forms. These criteria alone are art.
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FACTOR # 18: It is the opinion of the viewpoints that some of these forms should endure. Thus there is survival.
The theory of Dianetics and Scientology is based on the idea of survival. But the universe is designed to continually evolve toward better states. It takes attention and effort to make certain forms, such as, self, to endure. This effort is better spent in removing hindrances to evolution toward better states. Evolution surpasses mere survival.
FACTOR # 18 (revised): The forms continually endeavor toward attaining greater continuity, harmony and consistency. Thus there is evolution.
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FACTOR # 19: And the viewpoint can never perish; but the form can perish.
The universal viewpoint and the universal form maintain continuity, harmony and consistency. They have no beginning or end. But there are narrow viewpoints and subjective anomalies of discontinuity, disharmony and inconsistency that come and go.
FACTOR # 19 (revised): The universal beingness and viewpoint can never perish; but narrow viewpoints and their opinions of forms can perish.
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FACTOR # 20: And the many viewpoints, interacting, become dependent upon one another’s forms and do not choose to distinguish completely the ownership of dimension points and so comes about a dependency upon the dimension points and upon the other viewpoints.
The narrow viewpoints interact with each other and many of them obtain agreement on their subjective opinions, assumption, fixed ideas and speculations. Thus come about beliefs, such as, “Earth is the center of the universe,” or “our soul gets punished or rewarded after death.” Such beliefs then become paramount and the viewpoints become subject to them. Interactions among viewpoints come to be guided by such beliefs.
FACTOR # 20 (revised): And many viewpoints, interacting, come to agree on subjective opinions, assumption, fixed ideas and speculations. And so they become dependent on beliefs thus generated.
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FACTOR # 21: From this comes a consistency of viewpoint of the interaction of dimension points and this, regulated, is TIME.
The universal viewpoint and the objective form are eternal without beginning or end. Time accounts for its continual evolution toward greater continuity, harmony and consistency. But as the universal viewpoint narrows into multiple viewpoints, and agreements come about among their subjective views, there comes about a system of agreement, which becomes the common reality. Changes then occur in line with this common reality. Such changes then provide the idea of TIME.
FACTOR # 21 (revised): From this comes about a system of beliefs that regulates the viewpoints in their perception of reality. Thus TIME acquires a fixed characteristic.
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FACTOR # 22: And there are universes.
There is only one objective universe, which is displayed through subjects, such as, science, logic, mathematics, philosophy, etc. All these subjects are based on an innate sense of continuity, harmony and consistency. It has the universal viewpoint of seeing things as they are. But each narrow viewpoint has its own subjective universe, which is expressed through individual narrow system of beliefs.
FACTOR # 22 (revised): There are as many “universes” as there are subjective viewpoints; but there is only one objective universe.
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FACTOR # 23: The universes, then, are three in number: the universe created by one viewpoint, the universe created by every other viewpoint, the universe created by the mutual action of viewpoints which is agreed to be upheld—the physical universe.
There is only a single objective universe and its viewpoint. But there are as many subjective universes as there are subjective viewpoints. There are no separate and independent physical and metaphysical (or spiritual) universes. Physical and metaphysical are two aspects of the same universe.
As the context broadens, all viewpoints converge to the same objective viewpoint because they see reality for what it is. No agreement is required.
FACTOR # 23 (revised): All created universes are subjetive. A common universe created out of agreement is still subjective. Objectively, there is only one universe.
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FACTOR # 24: And the viewpoints are never seen. And the viewpoints consider more and more that the dimension points are valuable. And the viewpoints try to become the anchor points and forget that they can create more points and space and forms. Thus comes about scarcity. And the dimension points can perish and so the viewpoints assume that they, too, can perish.
A viewpoint is defined by its frame of reference. A person generally uses his body as his frame of reference. When studying astronomy he may change that frame of reference to the earth. When that frame of reference is the whole universe then it is a universal viewpoint. Thus a person can assume different viewpoints. In other words, the viewpoint can be flexible.
An anchor point refers to a fixed frame of reference. Here the viewpoint has lost its flexibility. When the body becomes a person’s anchor point then he looks at everything with his body as his fixed frame of reference. When the body dies the frame of reference is gone, and so the person’s individuality dies too. A flexible viewpoint survives such a death when it has attained the universal viewpoint.
FACTOR # 24 (revised): When a person’s viewpoint is fixed to the body, it has become subjective. When the body perishes the viewpoint gets absorbed in the universal viewpoint.
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FACTOR # 25: Thus comes about death.
Death is the disintegration of the form and the viewpoint (individuality) anchored to that form. The disintegrated elements of the form and the anchored viewpoint disperse into the universe. The viewpoint that survives this disintegration is the objectivity of the universal viewpoint. This universal viewpoint can be attained only in the human form.
FACTOR # 25 (revised): Thus comes about death of the form and its individual identity.
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FACTOR # 26: The manifestations of pleasure and pain, of thought, emotion and effort, of thinking, of sensation, of affinity, reality, communication, of behaviour and being are thus derived and the riddles of our universe are apparently contained and answered herein.
The manifestations of pleasure and pain, of thought, emotion and effort, of thinking, of sensation, of affinity, reality, communication, of behaviour and being are all subjective. They derive from the viewpoints anchored on perishable forms. The resolution of such manifestations depends on attaining the objectivity of the universal viewpoint.
FACTOR # 26 (revised): Manifestations of pleasure and pain, of thought, emotion and effort, of thinking, of sensation, of affinity, reality, communication, of behaviour and being are derived from viewpoints attached to perishable forms. The resolution of such manifestations comes from attaining the objectivity of the universal viewpoint.
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FACTOR # 27: There is beingness, but Man believes there is only becomingness.
The ultimate beingness is the objectivity of the universal viewpoint. But Man hankers after the personal viewpoint provided by the identity centered on the body.
FACTOR # 27 (revised): The ultimate beingness is attained by moving beyond the subjective viewpoint attached to the human body, and arriving at the objectivity of the universal viewpoint.
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FACTOR # 28: The resolution of any problem posed hereby is the establishment of viewpoints and dimension points, the betterment of condition and concourse amongst dimension points, and, thereby, viewpoints, and the remedy of abundance or scarcity in all things, pleasant or ugly, by the rehabilitation of the ability of the viewpoint to assume points of view, and create and uncreate, neglect, start, change and stop dimension points of any kind at the determinism of the viewpoint. Certainty in all three universes must be regained, for certainty, not data, is knowledge.
The resolution of human condition comes from letting the viewpoint unwind through all its fixations and widen its context. This is accomplished by practicing the discipline of mindfulness to resolve all discontinuities, disharmonies and inconsistencies as described at The Mindfulness Approach.
FACTOR # 28 (revised): The resolution of any condition comes when the viewpoint toward that condition attains the objectivity of the universal viewpoint, and establishes continuity, harmony and consistency among the dimension points. This is accomplished by practicing the discipline and exercises of mindfulness.
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FACTOR # 29: In the opinion of the viewpoint, any beingness, any thing, is better than no thing, any effect is better than no effect, any universe better than no universe, any particle better than no particle, but the particle of admiration is best of all.
Universal beingness is always there without beginning or end. It can be understood objectively on the basis of emptiness, or absence of phenomena. Any viewpoint, which is less than universal, is subjective because it tries to overcome its lack of universality by assuming things. Admiration means seeing things as they are without assumptions. That is the route to attaining the ultimate universal viewpoint.
FACTOR # 29 (revised): There is always a beingness with a viewpoint. Both beingness and viewpoint improve as they become more objective. True admiration arises from objectivity.
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FACTOR # 30: And above these things there might be speculation only. And below these things there is the playing of the game. But these things which are written here Man can experience and know. And some may care to teach these things and some may care to use them to assist those in distress and some may desire to employ them to make individuals and organizations more able and so give to Earth a culture of which we can be proud.
I have analyzed the Factors proposed by Hubbard with as much objectivity as I could muster. This revision basically replaces the idea of an arbitrary Cause by the criteria of continuity, harmony and consistency.
Hubbard’s pioneering work brought great improvement to prior understanding. This revision is an attempt to bring consistency to Hubbard’s materials with Vedas and Buddha’s work. The goal, of course, is to bring about greater understanding and better workability to the resolution of human condition.
Comments
LOL submitted as humbly as Hubbard?
Hubbard is the pioneer here. I have total respect for his lead. I am just coming after his adventurous foray into an unknown territory, cleaning up a few things here and there.
Well said, 🙂
Dear Vinaire
Just because cause and effect are “in such close relationship” they are still two separate things, hence they are expressed by two different words. Logic dictates that one must precede the other. Two objects may not occupy the same space at the same time if they do it will cause the vanishment of both objects.
The hard scientist would have us believe that “the big bang” caused the universe to come into existence but that begs the question “what caused the big bang”.
Man has intuitively believed there must be an “uncaused cause” before which we cannot go. Not only Semitic religions acknowledge the causeless cause, in fact it is gaining popularity in many quarters and is widely accepted as “the awareness of awareness”
See Rupert Spira https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ8tQYYNIg0
Love
Pip
Dear Pip,
In my view it is an error to look at Cause and Effects as things, objects or beingness.
Cause and effect are momentary characteristics of beingness.
Hi Vinaire
As you say “Cause and effect are momentary characteristics of beingness” and as such exist in time. We are talking about BEFORE TIME, that is BEFORE BEINGNESS. We are talking about PERSONHOOD – GOD- LIFE,TRUTH and LOVE.
Love
Pip
Before TIME there is no disturbance. There is uniformity of space all around. The essence of uniform space is uniform awareness. You may call it whatever you like that would not make any difference.
But cause and effect have time associated with them. So there is neither cause nor effect before time.
I see no problem with couching this discussion in terms of disturbance and no disturbance. While lacking in precision, it seems consistent and open to better precision in the future.
Well, we already know that disturbance is measured by “frequency” in Physics, and that gives us the electromagnetic spectrum. In Metaphysics, it seems that disturbance shall be measured by “affinity”, which gives us the Emotional Tone Scale.
This is just an initial guess. Let’s see where it leads us to as a hypothesis.
“This is just an initial guess. Let’s where it leads us to as a hypothesis.”
On this vector, I have been practicing visualizing the 4 dimensional radiation of EMR. I mention this because we are fond of using the relatively 2D surface of liquids as a model. This is possibly good for a start, but the 4 dimensional model is not easy for me to visualize. Our eyes and minds see very differently from what I am trying to see. I have the best success when I acknowledge the 4th dimension as time, which is motion.
I shall be writing more on this subject in the current MP series.
Cause and effect are innately cyclical. There is no beginning not any ending point to the discussion of this cycle.
Factually, except for using abstraction (such as the abstract value of pi, doing the calculation), there is no natural absolute beginning not absolute ending to any process.
Yes. Cause and effect are innately cyclical. I visualize it like a cosmic bubble, surface of which represents Cause, and the inside volume represents the effect. Within that inside volume there can be many bubbles that can be interpreted the same way. And then inside each of those bubbles there can be many bubbles. This pattern can keep on going.
In this model, the outer bubble cannot be “diffused” until all the inner bubbles are “diffused” first. A bubble is like a cycle. That cycle has to be completed before it can go away.
There is no beginning and no end of the surface of the bubble. The bubble has to diffuse as a whole to complete the cycle. The bubble formed when air was pumped into it. It will diffuse only when air is let out of it.
The surface of the bubble looked from inside represents time. Within that bubble time seems eternal with no begiining or end. We have no idea how the bubble was formed and how it could be diffused. Each bubble has its own time.
Anyway, this is the sort of rough model I am working with.
I like that model.
I am also embracing that my human perception is narrower than the world of processes in which I live. My ability to “see things as they are” is naturally narrow but I do the best that I can to take what has accurately been described by others and try to use my imagination together with consistency to try to see further into the seething rolling storm which is our universe. It is a fun hobby.
. . . and no time before disturbance….
In the “bubble model” there is no time outside the bubble.
“In the “bubble model” there is no time outside the bubble.”
Ah, yes. I understand.
Hi Vinaire
Yes I agree “before TIME there was no disturbance”, what I would refer to as harmony.
From a Scientology point of view space cannot exist without “viewpoint of dimension” so what is doing the viewing? You seem not to differentiate between AWARENESS and AWARENESS of AWARENESS. Your arguments make complete sense in terms of awareness, but what we are discussing is what lies “back of” awareness, and that does not exist in space or time since it is the CREATOR of space and time, and matter and energy.
Most “hard scientists” support the “big bang theory” which satisfies the human mind as to the origin of the universe, but it doesn’t satisfy the human spirit which inevitably askes “what preceded the big bang”. Of course the answer is nothing, however that nothing has to be written NO-THING and then we are back to GOD. Not that God exists but that GOD IS EXISTENCE.
Love
Pip
Viewpoint and dimension point come about only when space is disturbed. The space now denotes the difference between the viewpoint and dimension point. So, Hubbard is not looking at the space before it is disturbed. Hubbard doesn’t talk about this area. The way I am using the terminology here, it is consciousness, which requires a viewpoint. Awareness is neutral. Neither individuality, nor viewpoint exists at 40.0.
“Awareness of awareness” is actually complex consciousness that evolves with disturbance, and comes much later at the level of identity. It is not something that lies at the back of awareness.
“Yes I agree “before TIME there was no disturbance”, what I would refer to as harmony…Most “hard scientists” support the “big bang theory” which satisfies the human mind as to the origin of the universe, but it doesn’t satisfy the human spirit which inevitably asks “what preceded the big bang”. Of course the answer is nothing,. . .
Without wavelengths, comparative wavelengths, there is no harmony. That is the physical essence of harmony. Satisfaction and dissatisfaction “of the human spirit” are commentaries on wavelengths. Saying that “of course the answer is nothing” is a big conjecture and essentially meaningless because what man can know is something, not “nothing.”
The Great Zero in the Sky is a relativity. This is a productive vector to turn one’s direction. Practice with big and small numbers. Practice with positive and negative numbers. These arithmetic exercises loosen up one’s assumptions and consequently one’s thinking. Let’s try to relax and not to become frustrated with our demands for absolute answers and simply inquire objectively and sincerely. We have an entire universe that is actually just there to be discovered. We are just beginning, barely coming out of the awareness-nursery. Let’s not stop thinking prematurely because of the ache of not being instantly rewarded with consistent answers to the secrets of the universe. Ghostly conjectures are thought-stoppers, let’s just relax and let the questions arise as naturally as does life. ~Chris Thompson
Not to be intentionally harsh, I believe it is fair to say that except for in the realm of human abstraction/imagination/delusion, there is no such thing as an uncaused cause. No example at all. I do so enjoy a good fantasy but I try to not confuse my fantasy with reality. But I remain receptive to anyone able to demonstrate it.
Hi Chris
Be as harsh as you like. I shall not comment on “abstraction or delusion” but imagination is a “gift from God”. If we are writing from a Scientological view point it is important to use definitions that are appropriate to the subject.
I am using REALITY to mean “That we agree is”, as opposed to truth hence I differentiate between abstraction/delusion and imagination.
Of course an uncaused cause cannot be demonstrated YOU ARE IT! The phrase comes to mind “None’s so blind that will not see”.
Love
Pip
Pip,
You are funny.
“YOU ARE IT! The phrase comes to mind “None’s so blind that will not see”.”
I love to laugh at pretension masquerading as wisdom.
~Chris Thompson
Hi Chris
“Pretension masquerading as wisdom” being laughable – I think I know what you mean.
A couple of verses from scripture come to mind: 1 Corinthians 3:19 “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God” and Proverbs 1:7 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” and just for good measure I might throw in Psalm 14:1 “The fool says in his heart ‘there is no God’”.
Love
Pip
“A couple of verses from scripture come to mind: 1 Corinthians 3:19 “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God” and Proverbs 1:7 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom” and just for good measure I might throw in Psalm 14:1 “The fool says in his heart ‘there is no God’”.”
Hey Pip, These quotes are thought-stopping political manipulation, nothing more. Do you have eyes to see what I see and to hear what I hear? That’s the argument you are making, isn’t it? Is my seeing and my hearing as valid as yours or is yours somehow superior, more acute, special? Haven’t you had enough of this thought stopping pretension? I have. ~Chris
Pip, looks like you are one of the very few who know themselves. Well done.
Hi Vinaire
It is one thing knowing one’s self and quite another manifesting that knowledge in the MEST UNIVERSE. I take heart that I am a work in progress and that God has not finished with me yet. Thanks for the validation.
Love with understanding
Pip
The only problem I see with your “understanding” is that it is subjective (for you alone) and not objective (consistent with reality).
Hi Vinaire, I seem to have lost track of which post I am replying to. Perhaps if I just send them, you can make sense of where they belong.
“Hello Vinaire
That which is “consistent with reality” contains a lie. The fact is that God does not need to rely on reality to know the truth He is THE TRUTH, whether we agree or not.
In reality we are ALONE, in truth we are AL-ONE.
Love
Pip”
and
“Hi Vinaire
“Note: In Scientology it is considered that Theta (static) produces MEST (Kinetic). This implies that static ‘produces’ kinetic while it remains static. Such an idea is inherently inconsistent”
I would argue that the reverse is the truth “Kinetic” has no meaning without static. Even in terms of a billiard ball and a table, unless the table is deemed to be static, the motion of the ball has no meaning.
At the level of metaphysics without CONSCIOUSNESS there can be no M.E.S.T. Hence the inconsistency is the idea that there can be motion without no motion.
As Jesus is believed to have expressed it “Be in the world not of the world”.
Love
Pip”
P.S. My wife does the typing, so there is sometimes a comm.lag betrween my draft and her typing!
Saying, “God is THE TRUTH” is absolutism.
Absolutism = any theory holding that values, principles, etc., are absolute and not relative, dependent, or changeable.
Philosophy = the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.
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My understanding is that
(1) Absolutes are unattainable. This means that nothing can be defined with absolute certainty. Any certainty that one holds is subject to re-examination in the face of inconsistency.
(2) Philosophy is an investigation of what is really there. It makes progress by thoroughly examining inconsistencies to the point of eliminating them.
Ref: https://vinaire.me/2012/07/14/absolutism-and-philosophy/
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“Uncaused cause” is an idea that is inherently inconsistent. It is used to explain something that cannot be explained. It is more of an explanation of something that is unknown.
To give “uncaused cause” any more significance than a mere explanation is an error.
Cause and effect are separate in the sense that the crest and trough if a wave are separate. So in other words, separate in abstraction but not physically.
Well said!
Hi Chris
Obviously Cause and effect are separate within our understanding of a three dimensional universe, however in terms of A CAUSE that preceded time as in The Factors we are talking about a concept that transcends both space and time. Hence the ultimate CAUSE expresses as EFFECT which in turn brings about cause and effect.
Love
Pip
“Obviously Cause and effect are separate within our understanding of a three dimensional universe”
This is not obvious, nor do I understand it to be correct. Within my understanding, cause and effect are continuous. It is a leap of faith to believe there is an ultimate beginning to anything because there is no example of that absolute in our experience. We can say that there is a beginning or an end to things, but this is a mental abstraction, a way of halting, quantifying. Like saying that the value of pi is 3.14. That is how I calculate in construction because it gets me close enough. I do not need an absolute for this purpose. Thus I abstract the value of pi to be 3.14, when it is really irrational and continuous 3.14… This is how I understand the universe as complex and irrational. World without end, Amen.
“The Factors we are talking about a concept that transcends both space and time.”
Yes, I understand this. But I do not agree with the model.
Cause and effect can best be explained as flows. Cause is an outward flow from a beingness. Effect is an inward flow into a beingness. There can be a beingness without outward or inward flows.
It is an error to regard beingness itself as Cause or Effect.
I agree Vinaire, both cause and effect are flows. However with out flows there can be no beingness, for with out flows all there is, is STATIC and that as per the Factors is what was BEFORE THE BEGINNING.
Just as an aside, in the Bible beingness does not happen until Chapter II of Genesis where it says “Man became a living being”.
Love
Pip
Bible describes God as a beingness, whose doingness is to create the world, and the havingness is the world.
Hubbard says in Scn 8-8008:
“On this tone-scale, we have a theoretical point of no energy at 40.0, and a point where energy begins to be solid around 0.0; well below this level we have matter formed of the type known in the material universe. Thus one can see that this tone-scale is a gradient scale of energy, and that the energy is free toward the top of the scale and becomes less free and more fixed as one descends the scale.”
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This scale is brilliant. But Hubbard doesn’t see that this scale applied to spiritual the same way as it applies to physical. At 40.0 we have space and pure awareness. From 40.0 to 0.0 we have the energy and consciousness spectra. At 0.0 we have condensation of energy as well as that of consciousness into mass and identity respectively. The thetan is an aspect of identity at 0.0.
Hubbard manufactured the concept of thetan from human bias as a total mish-mash.
The earlier similar to this is the idea of “personal God” which is derived from the condensation of universal consciousness.
Thus, “personal God” is an identity that would come about at 0.0 on the above scale.
Hi Vinaire
We have had this conversation before about the meaning of “personal God”. In a way it is unfortunate that we don’t have a better word for God than personal since the word personal comes from the word person and the root of the word person is the word PERSONA – which is a MASK.
A better word is the Greek word HYPOSTASIS which means essence. The word I prefer is PERSONHOOD. That is what God is and you and I am. You and I as personas may well come in at 0.0 but that is because we are playing the role of THETANS but our TRUE identity is THETA.
Love
Pip
Dear PIP,
Theta is not an identity because identities appear as discrete entities. Theta can be divided into discrete entities only after it condenses at 0.0 into thetan. It cannot be divided until then.
Thetan then assumes individual identities. Here we have the whole evolutionary chain of forms at the peak of which is the human identity. A human being has both physical and spiritual aspects that are integrated into a single person. The spiritual essence cannot be separated from the physical form. The feeling of exteriorization is juat an “apparency”. The truth is unfixing of attention from the body.
This attention forms the viewpoint of the person that can rise from 0.0 to 40.0. This viewpoint uses the body as a reference point to feel grounded. Psychoses results when the viewpoint is not so grounded.
The God as viewed in Christianity is the idealization of the viewpoint at 40.0. This idealization comes down to 20.0 when God creates the material world. The material world is, of course, at Tone level of 0.0.
So, you may apply your idea of “essence” to this idealizaton of viewpoint. That is the Christian ‘God’.
Hi Vinaire
I agree that Theta is not an identity in as much that it creates identities. My understanding of Theta is UNCONDITIONAL LOVE which is the SOURCE of every-THING, of all identities. Hence “In the beginning was the decision and the decision was TO BE.
Love
Pip
Hi Pip,
I am currently writing an “MP” series to clarify all the confusion surrounding Theta and MEST. Please see
https://vinaire.me/2016/07/01/metaphysics-the-disturbance-theory/
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Theta spans the scale from 40.0 to 0.0 at which point it condenses into thetan. At 40.0 we have pure awareness that becomes consciousness as desire enters into it. Pure awareness is a desireless state.
Affinity is the defining characteristic of consciousness, the same way that frequency is the defining characteristic of electromagnetism. Time introduces frequency in space creating electromagnetism. Similarly, desire introduces affinity in awareness creating consciousness.
Frequency produces an electromagnetic spectrum consisting of Radio waves, Microwaves, Light waves, X-rays and Gamma rays. Similarly, affinity produces a Tone Scale consisting of a whole range of emotions from Serenity to Apathy.
These emotions are found to follow a cycle of unfixed, fixed and dispersed attention. Unfixed is the general state of attention, which becomes fixed when a situation comes to notice and the attention is devoted to resolving it. The attention gets dispersed upon a failure to resolve the situation.
The last paragraph of the Section “Terminals” in the book Scientology 8-8008, finally provides the insight into what Hubbard is trying to achieve through Scientology. Here is my summation.
Hubbard is saying that objective reality is actually a subjective reality that is being shared by everyone. In other words, the “objective” reality is the outcome of shared filters instead of an absence of filters.
Being a hypnotist, Hubbard knew that individual reality can be changed through hypnotism. Under hypnotism the hypnotist manipulates the filters of the individual to change his reality.
Hubbard hoped that even the objective reality could be changed if one could manipulate the filters en masse. Thus, one could bring a desired reality. This has been the goal of Scientology.
So, here is a comparison of Buddhism (mindfulness) to Scientology.
Buddhism (mindfulness) = Arrive at the objective reality by removing all filters. This shall resolve all suffering..
Scientology = Create a desired reality by installing certain filters on everybody. This will make everyone a powerful individual. This is the OT.
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In a way, the Semitic religions also have had a goal similar to Scientology.
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I have been introducing myself to epigenetics.
Cause and Effect may appear to be separate in our subjective understanding. But objectively they are not separate. No instance can be demonstrated where Cause may exist on its own independent of time and effect..
Cause is occurrence of a change. When there is change, there is also time; and there is also effect. Therefore, Cause is always accompanied by time and effect.
Any idea that Cause may exist before time is subjective only. It may be accompanied by an erroneous concept of time.
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Except when it is before time and then it is that which has the entire purpose of the creation of effect.
The phrase “before time” is self-contrdictory like “Uncaused cause” and “Unmoved mover”.
1 Corinthians 3:19 “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness to God”
Proverbs 1:7 “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”
Psalm 14:1 “The fool says in his heart ‘there is no God’”.
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A fool really has no objective concept of God. He parades around his subjective concept of God making others wrong and himself right.
God is an abstract concept, but the fool makes God into a humanlike person who mysteriously makes things out of thin air. He gives humanlike intentions to God. He presents God as a humanlike person to be feared.
Objectively, God is infinite and, therefore, God cannot be defined. Many followers of Semitic religions try to define God in human terms, but that is an error.
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Vinaire
I agree that God cannot be defined in human terms, that’s why I do not call myself “A Christian”. I see myself as “A follower of the Way”. I am told a perfectly good translation of “I am the way the truth and the life, would be “I AM is the Way the Truth and the Life.
None of us can have an “objective concept of God” unless God reveals Himself to us, and He has done just that in The Lord Jesus Christ. There is a saying in Christianity – GOD BECAME MAN SO THAT MAN MIGHT BECOME GOD.
I think that Scientology started quite scientifically in an attempt to understand the universal reality but it then got blindsided by religious filters of Hubbard.
Here is how I have introduced my “MP” series:
The American religion of Scientology claims to take a scientific approach to the understanding of human “self” and the realization of its potential. But how scientific is it?
Scientology seems to have been effective in helping many thousands of people get rid of their psychosomatic ills and personal problems through its auditing procedures, but it has also fallen far short of fulfilling its promise of producing Operating Thetans (humans of much higher intelligence and super abilities).
Whether the approach in Scientology is completely scientific or not, it does provide a workable model for improving human conditions. This “MP project” examines the fascinating model of “human spirit and the material universe”, as presented in the book Scientology 8-8008.
The purpose of this project is to conduct a careful, systematic study of the theory of Scientology philosophy as presented in Scientology 8-8008. The basic idea is to arrive at a model for metaphysical reality that is scientifically consistent.
Ref: https://vinaire.me/2016/07/04/mp-0-introduction/
I have modified my comment under Factor #1.
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Cause and effect are elements of consciousness (emotion), just like electrical and magnetic influences are elements of energy (motion). This is explained in “MP 4”
Ref: https://vinaire.me/2016/07/01/mp-4-the-kinetic-condition/
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It is an error to reify Cause as done in Factor #1.
Reify = to consider or make (an abstract idea or concept) real or concrete.
Ref: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/reify?s=t
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Cause-effect always occurs in pair. It has to do with sequencing and programming that ultimately brings about a structure.
At the highest level there is the consideration of pure programming. Above that level there is simply no programming.